C-175 or 416-H more desirable?

[cjb398 27]

I have acquired over the years a C-175 Black Hood and a 416-H. Both have 48" decks are in comparable and good condition, and both have similar hours on them. They seem to perform very similar as well for my purposes, which is just mowing the yard, so I have decided, for several reasons, to sell one. I just don't know which. To me they are functionally identical, but which one would the marketplace find more desirable and be an easier sell at a fair price? Appreciate any input, thanks.

 

Chuck

Edited 21 hours ago by cjb398
forgot signature

[ri702bill 12,051]

Does the C175 have a Series I or Series II Kohler in it?

The Series II is preferred over the Series I.

[Bill D 2,826]

If the C175 has been upgraded to the series 2 engine that would be the one to keep.  I personally love my 416H's but Onans can be temperamental.

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,570]

I had a C175. It was my favorite. 

[pfrederi 20,441]

C-175 no fancy electronics.... If your area owed wasn't;'t really hilly and you watched the oil definitely C-175

Edited 19 hours ago by pfrederi

[oliver2-44 11,457]

Just to verify, the 416 is an Onan?

Sometimes I get mixed up with the 414 that can have a Kohler or an Onan.

 

Both the Onan and Kohler twins sound excellent, but as said, the Onan can be temperamental. 

 

If you were closer. I'd be be telling you to sell the C-175 so I could buy it but someone might 

[cjb398 27]

4 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Does the C175 have a Series I or Series II Kohler in it?

The Series II is preferred over the Series I.

It's a Series 1.

[cjb398 27]

4 hours ago, Bill D said:

If the C175 has been upgraded to the series 2 engine that would be the one to keep.  I personally love my 416H's but Onans can be temperamental.

The Onan hasn't caused me any trouble so far. In what way is it temperamental?

[Bill D 2,826]

3 minutes ago, cjb398 said:

The Onan hasn't caused me any trouble so far. In what way is it temperamental?

Intake manifold leaks, ignition module failures, non adjustable carbs, governor spacer sliping on high hour engines, dumb connecting rod design, 9 pin burn ups.  Still I like them, but I love an underdog.  Most issues are repairable unless a connecting rod snaps.  Parts are expensive and some are hard to find.  With either machine, plan on an engine swap if the engine blows.

[kpinnc 18,099]

I'm not a fan of anything with an Onan, but the P216 is much better than the P220 statistically. The 16 doesn't tend to have all the issues associated with the 20hp. 

 

When parts were available (if you could afford them), the Performer series Onan engines were exceptional. Nowadays they can be more difficult to keep up. 

 

But the series 1 Kohler twins have some very serious limitations. The "spray" lubrication system is definitely a weak point. That being said, if it is still going it is probably a good one. 

 

I'm not good at these decisions. I have way more tractors than I need. When it comes time to downsize, I'll likely be a nervous wreck trying to decide which ones to let go of... 

[sqrlgtr 2,793]

4 hours ago, cjb398 said:

It's a Series 1.

If it were a series 2 my vote would be for the C175, assuming both are Hydros. I would take my chances with the Onan with pressurized oil system, but I have a lot of hills around me. You could list both and let fate decide.

[ri702bill 12,051]

3 hours ago, sqrlgtr said:

If it were a series 2 my vote would be for the C175, assuming both are Hydros. I would take my chances with the Onan with pressurized oil system, but I have a lot of hills around me. You could list both and let fate decide.

Hills - the great equalizer of splash lubed engines. The hill always wins when the rod cap dipper goes dry.... 

[WHX?? 56,462]

10 hours ago, cjb398 said:

It's a Series 1.

Ouch I would probably let that one go then. I had a C-195 series 1 and it was never used on anything but flat ground and it still had oiling problems and smoked like a chimney.  Far as I'm concerned a series 1 has a definite hour span. Wouldn't be the end of the world if they were rebuildable. Then again a repo is always an option. Tough decision either way. 

[953 nut 65,764]

1980 was a transition year for the C-175 from Sundstrand to Eaton 1100. If you have the Series One K-Twin coupled to a Sundstrand then the C-175 should be offered to another owner. I am a big fan of the Eaton 1100.         

[oldlineman 1,703]

Well that just about settles it, you need to keep both, problem solved! 

[Brockport Bill 2,323]

I am fan of the blackhoods ---------- I have two of the C175h models - a S1 and what was a S2 but now the S2 KT 17 has been replaced with a Briggs from an 1800 ( thanks to Bill D ) --------  the C175H with the S1 is my year round worker - snow and yard - I know the Kohlers better than the Onans so the K's are my preference

[Brockport Bill 2,323]

oh yeah as added note  - yes, I like the Blackhood -- but I am also fan of the unique seat pan fender on the 175s - an unusual distinction to give one of the horses some different character

[Handy Don 16,449]

12 hours ago, Bill D said:

Intake manifold leaks, ignition module failures, non adjustable carbs, governor spacer sliping on high hour engines, dumb connecting rod design, 9 pin burn ups.  Still I like them, but I love an underdog.  Most issues are repairable unless a connecting rod snaps.  Parts are expensive and some are hard to find.  With either machine, plan on an engine swap if the engine blows.

Good summary.

Some also point out loosening valve seats on the Onan rear cylinder, though I personally suspect this mostly affects the 220 with the more aggressive cam and failure to keep adequate cooling air flowing. 

But the main point is that if maintained proactively, they usually do very well. Oil, clean under the shrouds and fins, gasket around the oil filter, valve adjust and de-carbon at 750 hours, etc.

[cjb398 27]

9 hours ago, sqrlgtr said:

If it were a series 2 my vote would be for the C175, assuming both are Hydros. I would take my chances with the Onan with pressurized oil system, but I have a lot of hills around me. You could list both and let fate decide.

I have never fully understood what qualifies as "hills" I do have some grade on my property of maybe 5-6%. And I do have more like a 10-15% slope that I go up at an angle and am only on it for maybe 20 seconds at a time. Are these hills or is it really when you are spending several minutes going up or down a hill at a time? And is it just when going up or just going down, or both, and how about when going across a hill? Is it applicable then, and is it worse with the left side or right side facing down the hill? Sorry, lots of questions and confusion!

Chuck 

[953 nut 65,764]

Oiling of the rod bearings is the big problem with the Series One K-Twins. A spray of oil is directed toward the connecting rod from the cam shaft bearings, if you are going up or down a hill gravity will direct the oil away from the rod.

[cjb398 27]

21 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Oiling of the rod bearings is the big problem with the Series One K-Twins. A spray of oil is directed toward the connecting rod from the cam shaft bearings, if you are going up or down a hill gravity will direct the oil away from the rod.

Thanks. I thought from other remarks that the problem was with the oil pickup from the oil reservoir and so people recommend overfilling the oil a bit. Are both oil pickup and the oil spray distribution an issue?

[Handy Don 16,449]

54 minutes ago, cjb398 said:

Sorry, lots of questions and confusion!

These are appropriate questions.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Handy Don

[sqrlgtr 2,793]

5 hours ago, 953 nut said:

1980 was a transition year for the C-175 from Sundstrand to Eaton 1100.

If the C175 isn't an Eaton 1100 it fo sure would be the one going.

 

2 hours ago, cjb398 said:

I have never fully understood what qualifies as "hills"

I have some pretty steep places I mow, steeper than I should mow but all my mowing gets done with a Toro zero turn now.

[cjb398 27]

6 hours ago, 953 nut said:

1980 was a transition year for the C-175 from Sundstrand to Eaton 1100. If you have the Series One K-Twin coupled to a Sundstrand then the C-175 should be offered to another owner. I am a big fan of the Eaton 1100.         

It's a 1984 model, so it has the Eaton.

[Brockport Bill 2,323]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Oiling of the rod bearings is the big problem with the Series One K-Twins. A spray of oil is directed toward the connecting rod from the cam shaft bearings, if you are going up or down a hill gravity will direct the oil away from the rod.

I have had the same questions about S1 versus S2.....not just about slope angle but as you say, more interested in how long is slope and how much time on the slope where the engine would be challenged by the oil issue? How quickly is damage done....if mowing a hill once per week 4 drives up or down the hill for 15 seconds will that really fail to lubricate the kt17 or will it take 20,30,40 years for damage to accumulate?