Magnum M14S - Governor Shaft Replacement & Mystery Metal in Oil Pan

[Red Barrons 8]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I always appreciate the information available on these forums - so, thank you!

 

I have a 1997 Toro Wheel Horse 314-8 that was handed down from my grandfather to me some time ago. Recently, while running the tractor, it started to rev heavy. I throttled it down hard, pulled it in the garage, and shut her down. Quickly discovered that the governor shaft was spinning freely. Pulled the engine (Magnum M14S), dropped the oil pan, and was able to remove the governor shaft without any other disassembly (crank shaft, cam shaft, etc). . Sure enough, the flag on the shaft was broken off. Looked in the oil pan and quickly found the "flag". 

 

However, I also found another piece of metal in the pan that I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what it is (photo attached).

 

 

 

I'm looking for some help determining what exactly the mystery piece is. As far as I can tell from from looking deep into the crankcase, the governor gear appears fine (flyweights are still both attached and move freely, teeth appear fine, middle piston moves in and out freely). Looking at diagrams and videos, the mystery part does not appear to be anything involved with the governor gear - which, if true, makes me happy, as I'm really not in a position to pull everything apart right now. Also, I think I can get a new shaft installed without doing so - though I welcome thoughts from those who've actually done this before.

 

Any help here from someone with more experience than I would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all again for keeping this information, and these old Wheel Horses, alive!

[953 nut 65,119]

When a Kohler single cylinder engine is assembled the first part that goes in is the governor shaft so I don't think you will be able to replace it without an engine disassembly

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[JoeM 9,732]

Piece of fuel pump lever?

[Red Barrons 8]

Quote

When a Kohler single cylinder engine is assembled the first part that goes in is the governor shaft so I don't think you will be able to replace it without an engine disassembly

 

Thanks for the welcome and the reply! Ugh, not what I wanted to hear - but appreciate the insight and the manual! If I don't have to replace the governor gear, I'm going to give it a good college try with a pocket extend-o-magnet and some patience. I have very little faith it'll work - but may be worth a try?

 

Quote

Piece of fuel pump lever?

 

Okay, so you might be onto something with this - as the fuel pump lever is actuated via the camshaft (which aligns with how it got inside the crankcase). Also of interest, which aligns with this theory: I installed an electric fuel pump about a year ago or so because I was having trouble with cold starts. I have a feeling that that, if true, that broken lever is exactly the reason I was fighting for fuel on starts.

 

I'll try to pull the fuel pump here in the next few days and will let you all know what I find. If this is it, that would absolutely be best case scenario all around. 

 

More to come! I can't say THANK YOU enough to both of you!

 

[953 nut 65,119]

You should take a close look at the camshaft while you are3 in there, lots of action going on around it.

[Red Barrons 8]

Okay, couldn't wait because it was driving me nuts. You were 100% correct. Broken fuel pump lever.

 

 

The tractor only has 305 hours on it - meaning it has sat a lot. Looks like that fuel pump froze up and likely broke the lever on a start. Going to replace the pump, of course.

 

Also, will absolutely take a look at that camshaft. Want to make sure nothing got marred up, bent, etc.

 

Thanks to both of you for the help here! I will let you know if I find anything else and/or if I'm successful in doing this without a full disassembly. Fingers crossed!

[Handy Don 16,243]

if your only motivation for the electric fuel pump was the now-discovered failed mechanical pump, You may choose to revert with a replacement.

However, if you are happy with the electric, there is no need to replace the mechanical pump--use a gasket and a simple plate to cover the hole where the fuel pump fits. The seal needs only to be strong enough to handle the fluctuating crankcase pressure and keep splashing oil from seeping out. 

Edited April 13 by Handy Don

[squonk 46,068]

You will find the flag will prevent you from installing the shaft. Been there. Tried it. Too many angles and twisting to get that shaft back in.

 

Install the old fuel pump over the hole with out fuel lines attached. Instant cover.

[JCM 11,081]

@Red Barrons   These guy's will fix you right up. You got some great members respond to your issue. Nothing short of Geniuses when it comes to Wheel Horse. 

[peter lena 9,846]

@Red Barrons  thanks for the insight  into your problem , having changed over to electric pumps years a go , recommend carbole low pressure 2-3.5 psi   model , have in use for years  , also have mine mounted up front  on frame , others  refer to rear mounting , as better pusher  , never had an issue , wired into start  , also have  fuel filters  at tank and before carb , with clear hose and check valve , holding  standing fuel to carb , verifying set up , love to eliminate  repetitive problems , fuel related ,problems eliminated with  , all new hose, tank and carb bowl , clean out , and sta bil  in ALL MY GAS , ounce or two , result ? no fuel debris in any related filter , isn't   that what you want ?    added a blank over that fuel pump , area . pete      

[gt14rider 1,149]

@redbaron I have replaced the shaft on a 14 hp. I turned engine upside down,  used two small magnets,  one to get rod lined up, flag orientation with gov gear, pull rod through hole with other magnet Take your time, I dropped rod down, then maneuvered into position with magnets. PIA, but can be done, you have to stick tongue out and bite down. Good luck.

[Red Barrons 8]

12 hours ago, Handy Don said:

if your only motivation for the electric fuel pump was the now-discovered failed mechanical pump, You may choose to revert with a replacement.

However, if you are happy with the electric, there is no need to replace the mechanical pump--use a gasket and a simple plate to cover the hole where the fuel pump fits. The seal needs only to be strong enough to handle the fluctuating crankcase pressure and keep splashing oil from seeping out. 

 

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

@Red Barrons  thanks for the insight  into your problem , having changed over to electric pumps years a go , recommend carbole low pressure 2-3.5 psi   model , have in use for years  , also have mine mounted up front  on frame , others  refer to rear mounting , as better pusher  , never had an issue , wired into start  , also have  fuel filters  at tank and before carb , with clear hose and check valve , holding  standing fuel to carb , verifying set up , love to eliminate  repetitive problems , fuel related ,problems eliminated with  , all new hose, tank and carb bowl , clean out , and sta bil  in ALL MY GAS , ounce or two , result ? no fuel debris in any related filter , isn't   that what you want ?    added a blank over that fuel pump , area . pete      

 

I appreciate these responses and insights. Thank you! I do currently have a low pressure Carbole like yours installed and hooked up. I mounted mine to the right foot guard, added a filter, etc. - sounds very similar to how you did yours.

 

For me, it's a always a fine line between improving something and still keeping something as it was designed. One part of me says "just cover the thing and call it a day!". The other part says "but then there's something installed on the tractor that isn't in working order, and I know about it, and it's driving me nuts!".

Edited April 13 by Red Barrons

[Red Barrons 8]

18 minutes ago, gt14rider said:

@redbaron I have replaced the shaft on a 14 hp. I turned engine upside down,  used two small magnets,  one to get rod lined up, flag orientation with gov gear, pull rod through hole with other magnet Take your time, I dropped rod down, then maneuvered into position with magnets. PIA, but can be done, you have to stick tongue out and bite down. Good luck.

 

I'm sure as hell hoping I have the same luck! I'm also exploring possibly tying a string to the shaft and pulling it up through the crank case, through the hole, and out. Maybe between that and some magnets, I can get her to walk through. 

[Red Barrons 8]

4 hours ago, squonk said:

You will find the flag will prevent you from installing the shaft. Been there. Tried it. Too many angles and twisting to get that shaft back in.

 

Install the old fuel pump over the hole with out fuel lines attached. Instant cover.

 

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. And I don't have the smallest of hands...

 

We'll see! I'll let everyone know, regardless. Thanks again! 

[Red Barrons 8]

Hey everyone! Just wanted to follow up with how things went, both to give closure and to maybe help anyone in the future.

 

I was able to get that governor shaft in place and installed without any further disassembly of the crankcase. Took one strong magnet placed on the outside of the governor shaft hole, one extend-o pocket magnet to move the shaft around in the case, and about 10 minutes of my time. Turned the engine on its head, dropped the shaft down at the bottom, then maneuvered the shaft into position using the extend-o magnet. Once it was "in place"-ish, I moved it close enough to the magnet covering the shaft hole. The shaft attracted to the magnet and grabbed over. Then, I just pulled the magnet outward (with the shaft attached) and the shaft walked through the hole. Checked the alignment was correct, installed the shaft sleeve, torqued down the nut, and voila! - new governor shaft installed and ready to go. Reassembled everything (new oil, new oil pan gasket, new fuel pump installed, but not hooked-up to fuel lines (for closure - still using the electric fuel pump)), started her up, and bingo-bango - throttled up and governor-ed down as expected.

 

Thanks again to everyone for the assistance and help here! It is GREATLY appreciated. Thank you!