Ok, New Topic, Wheel Horse Rectifier Ignition?

[Railboy 8]

Hello and yes, another thread under Electrical.

 

I did get the Wheel Horse out today and grass cut, but of course if you know

that I have been working on it, I have been studying the Electrical Diagrams 

of a 1987 Wheel Horse 310-8.

 

Here is my question, which wire on the diagram "Charges the Battery?  Dark Blue Wire or Tan Wire?

 

I am looking for a voltage regulator or rectifier of some sort and want to collaborate what the diagram says, that is

the ignition has a rectifier built in?   I have read this on the net and the net says the ignition has a built in rectifier in it, so wanting to confirm mine.

 

Why, if the ignition switch has a rectifier, I will not over charge the battery.  Is this true?  Or is there a component I am missing that needs

a wire for charging the battery and this is in the diagram and I am over looking it or a wire?

 

And yes, some work has or will be having done to the electrical, I just want to have everything in mind taken care of before I dive iny.  And yes, over-charging the battery is a 

concern if the other work plays out correct, illuminating a short-circuit, which I will do continuity checks to find out about.

 

Thank you for your help.

Edited 18 hours ago by Railboy

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,061]

The white wire charges the battery through the ignition switch. The diode is on the Kohler side of the connector. Feel the wire for a small lump that is likely taped over - that is the diode rectifier. No regulator because in theory the stator will not put out enough current to overcharge a battery but we have seen it happen. Keep an eye on the voltmeter.

[wallfish 19,493]

I believe it's the white wire from the engine. A 3 amp charge circuit does NOT have an external regulator/rectifier.

That Magnum engine uses a diode in the wire to achieve the rectifier from AC to DC. The key switch doesn't have ANY circuitry in it, just contacts to direct current and ground.

 

A rectifier - converts the AC current produced by the stator into DC current

A regulator - regulates the current for charging a battery to prevent over charging

The ignition circuit has nothing to do with the charging circuit and vise versa

Starting circuit has nothing to to with either

Consider them 3 independent circuits that run through 1 common key switch. 

 

[Railboy 8]

Ok guys, thank you for the answers.  I have been worried that in doing the following if you have not seen my other "Electrical" thread already this is what

I am up to.  This post I have a feeling may be a little long...

 

I had the engine rebuilt over the winter, and in doing so the "Oil Sender" was taken out do to it is made of plastic and could break causing 

internal engine damage.

 

Ok, I know I have said it and repeating it now, but for the new people, since I do not have the Oil Sender nor its Positive Circuit of the Dark Blue Wire

Connected to the Light Blue Wire, is to mimic the Oil Sender by putting in a Jumper Wire.

 

This jumper wire as I was told to do will be connecting the Purple at the Solenoid to the Light Blue Wire, which the Light Blue Wire ties into the Tan Wire to the ignition.

 

So, have this question, if I am by-passing the Dark Blue Wire, am I getting rid of a circuit that does anything?  Why I am into this post's descriptions.

 

See, I do not have the relay that the Orange, Purple, Dark Blue, or Tan Wires run into.  It was taken out by a previous owner and I do not have a seat

switch, which I guess is why the relay was taken out.  Also, the Clutch and PTO now tie into the only relay I have, the Short Purple Wire Relay.

 

But to wrap this up, I was told when I do put the Jumper Wire in between the Purple Wire and Light Blue Wire, to take out the Relay the Short Purple Wire

goes to from the Solenoid, for it is by-passed.

 

So, that is why I have the question now of the Dark Blue, with no relays and the Dark Blue Wire omitted from the tractor, is this ok as long as my continuity checks

of the 15 Amp. Fuse Red Wire Check out against the chassis(-)?  I have been blowing the 15 Amp. Fuse, and the tractor starts when the fuse blows(do to grounding),

but, you have to replace the 15 amp. fuse every time when starting.  And this development started once the engine was put back in, with out the Oil Sender.

 

So, does the Jumper work out for ya'll and I will keep my "Normal" charging System Operational of the Battery?  And do not worry about the Dark Blue Wire?

 

Also, On the Kohler side of the connector, I have a Black, Yellow and White Wire.  The Blue's, the light blue and dark blue wires were cut off at the oil sender

and prongs removed from the Kolher's Side of the Connector.

 

So more or less the question, do I need to do anything with the Dark Blue Wire to repeat myself or just over-look it when I do the jumper of Purple and Light Blue?

 

Sorry for the rambling, what I stated makes since to me, but I am a Newbie at Wheel Horse Electrical Diagrams, and plus taken direction for the Wheel Horse did

great all last year's grass season, just drank oil but since putting the engine back on with out the Oil Sender and no wires from it, this has been taken place and how

to fix it has been pointed out to me.  And thank y'all for the advise, I have yet to have anything melt, there are no pinched wires or chaffed wires, but getting a ground

to the 15 amp. fuse red wire and trying to illuminate it with out upsetting the tractor.  And to pass it along, I did find a ground at the relay, at the short purple wire.

 

Oh, after rereading this post, I do have a last question about the Stator and Magneto.  When I do a continuity check between the 15 amp. fuse Red Wire, can it

ground out continuity wise with either the stator and magneto with no cables to the battery?  I do not know much on how stators and magnetos are wired.

 

Thank you for your help, sorry for the long post.   Just trying to get my chores layed out before me before diving in on how to go about solving the above.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,061]

Compare the wiring diagram above to this one. The dark blue wire to the oil lamp has been removed along with the battery power red to the low oil light.

Magnetos are self-powered. The ignition wire simply grounds the magneto to shut it off. Do not allow any battery voltage to get to that ignition wire. It will release the magneto magic smoke.

[Railboy 8]

So is it recommended to tie the Light Blue and Purple Wire that run into the relay with the Dark Blue and Ground, there, tie those together at the connector

of the relay?  Also, I was told to dispose of the relay there, correct?

 

Thing is I am not sure if I need to worry of the Dark Blue Wire?  And yes, see them on the diagram for both Oil Sender and Magneto, this is the full diagram.

Also, don't forget of the other relay I am already missing.

 

On the up and up, I am going to have to do continuity checks on wires if it is more than that for my wires are all painted or something.  I have blues( Dark and Light)

for the oil sender, but have an additional blue that turns black and a green that turns black at the tractor side of the engine connector.  The engine side of the connector is

White on top, with Yellow and Black(Painted or Something) below it on the engine side.

 

I don't mind taken the time to do continuity checks on wires to make sure I have a complete wire, but today as of right now is a wash for me to work on it.

I have to open up a 10X12 Shed to get to the Tractor and have light and its raining, and I am not sure what the day may hold. I do continuity checks by using

Stick Pins through the Shieldings.

[pfrederi 20,048]

Your tractor will operate with just basic wiring.  Since you are already missing the seat switch I would rewire just the essentials,  get it to run with out blowing the fuse and then start adding back the PTO and clutch safety switches one at  time so you will know what is causing the fuse to blow,

 

Pull the plug from the ignition switch and use temporary jumpers only for "S" run it directly to small terminal in the solenoid,  The M terminal wire directly to the blue wire coming out of the engine harness. and a jumper from the battery + to the B terminal

That will get it running and be able to turn it off.  Then start adding things back

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by pfrederi

[Railboy 8]

Ok, I tried to follow what you said pfrederi, and the thing here is I do not want to upset the wires or mess with the backing of the 

original Ignition Switch.  It is near 40 years old, lol...

 

But let me get this straight, for I was told this.  That is that all wires are "Positive" unless the "Ground" Symbol is indicated on the electrical diagrams.

 

So, at the Oil Sender's Wires on the engine side of the Kohler connector that I am missing the prongs do to clipped wires of the oil sender,

on the engine side, if I have this right, both Light Blue and Dark Blue Oil Sender wires are "Positively Charged" for when the Oil Sender

is reading Full Oil, the Blues(Dark & Light), are polarized with Positive Power?

 

And if so, the Dark Blue and Light Blue need to be jumped together from the Purple Wire at that connector?  For what I have have been thinking

is when to ask this and also in doing that, pull the last relay out, and I know, by-passing the safety switches, which for me is no biggy for now, I just need charging

and starting and shutting down.  And also, with the Engine/Tractor connector disconnected, no chassis continuity of the 15 amp. fuse,  Correct?

 

Then I can start, charge and shut down the engine fine?  Yea, been wondering when to ask this, but seams a good time.

[pfrederi 20,048]

Not sure what you mean about positively charged. What a switch does is either complete a circuit or open it.  You have continuity in one position no continuity the other.

[702854boy 580]

Since the previous owner made it all confusing and the wires are 40 years old, I'd get some new wire, I think some people use trailer harnesses, and rewire the whole thing. That way you can know easier that everything is going where it should, you'd have the reassurance that the wires are good, and if done carefully, you shouldn't harm the ignition switch any.

[pfrederi 20,048]

 

After market ignition switches are less than $15

[Railboy 8]

@pfrederi, well here it goes.  I was told that wires on the diagram are positive, unless the negative symbol is at an end point.  Like,

on the only relay I have, the one with the Light Blue, Purple, Dark Blue and the Black has the Symbol to terminate into the chassis(Ground).

This is illistatrated, Also, this is the relay that the Purple runs or you can say is a short wire and connects to the Solenoid.  That Black has the symbol of ground.

This is the illustration I want to point out of the Positive's and Negative Wires in how I was told, and also the Purple Wire I want to pick-up.

 

So, what I am preposing is this.  For, I was told that the Dark Blue and Light Blue at the Engine/Tractor Connector of the Oil Sender

are Positive.  And when actuated, the oil sender, it throws in a negative(ground) for no starts or low oil light, when you have low oil or no oil.  True?

 

If so, what I have now is a broken circuit do to the Oil Sender and wiring is gone, So, Connect the Purple Wire from the 1/4" Nut Post of the Solenoid

to "Both" of the Light Blue and Dark Blue at the tractor side of the Engine/Tractor Connector.  These are easy to find, and this way I am mimicking the Oil Sender for 

the Light Blue and Dark Blue will be Positive there.  True?

 

Then this coencides with mimicking the missing relay and what the previous owner did already, and also I can take out my last relay, and I do not have to touch anymore wiring

for the relay is gone like the relay the seat switch went to, but the Tractor will be back to normal like last season, the Wires, Light Blue and Dark Blue are Positive at the 

Tractor Side of the engine connector.  And like above, mimicking the Oil Switch.  No more work for there is not a ground of the relay as I illustrated, it will be illuminated.

 

I then can do my continuity checks to see what's up from 15 amp. fuse to what ever.  And if there is an issue, be back, lol..  

 

What through me is that the Dark Blue Wire is used for a couple things, and keeping this basic as I can, this is what I came up with.  And so you know, the 

battery cables will be off, both of them.  Not that you just need one, just can't afford to fry anything, parts are hard to come by.  Items are being discontinued

in making all of the time I am learning.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,061]

If you remove the fuse and connect a 12 volt bulb across the 2 fuse wires you will save some fuses. When the light is on the short exists because one side has battery power and the other has a short to ground. When the light is off the short does not exist.

May help you find that short.

Requires a blub and socket with 2 wires.

Or if you have a test light put the probe to one wire and the ground clamp to the other in place of the fuse.

When you get the light on you can work at finding out what will put it out. - short found.