1987 Wheel Horse 310-8 15 Amp. Fuse Blowing after Oil Sender Removed

[Railboy 8]

Hello, I was advised to start a New Thread here at "Wheel Horse Electrical" for my 1987 Wheel Horse 310-8 Model #211OK04 on my blowing a 15 amp. fuse situation.

 

I am Blowing the 15 amp. fuse that is part of the Charging Circuit at time of Start-Up but the Tractor Runs on its Magneto fine, but the Stator

for it has that as well, is not charging do to the Blown Fuse that is part of that circuit and the Voltmeter stays at 8 Volts bottomed out when the engine is running.

 

I am getting continuity between the 15 amp. fuse Circuit and Chassis.  Also, been told I need to put in a Jumper Wire to Mimic that the 

Oil Sender is in the Engine, but was taken out at time of Rebuild over the winter do to the Oil Sender is made of Plastic and can break causing

internal Engine Damage.  The engine ran fine all last year's grass season but drank oil like big time.  Why the rebuild...

 

So, below is my wiring diagram for the Tractor and please follow for I have not melted any wires or shortened anything out, it is that I am and want to be

verified on what I am doing in that I have learned through the forums being a Newbie, that the diagram show all wires as "Positive" unless the Negative Symbol

is illustrated.

 

So, this is what I have been told to do under my original post at "Wheel Horse Tractors" when I was identifying my Tractor and learning at first on what to do on the Fuse?

 

Here is the diagram to follow:

 

 

And I was told to do this...  Simply go to the Solenoid's 1/4" Nut Wiring Post were the Purple Wire Picks up,  then Tie that into the Light Blue Wire

by-passing all the relays to have power to the ignition.  This way I am mimicking the Oil Sender existence and have power looped to the ignition

completing the charging circuit at the same time, and by-passing all the relays and there Safety Switches.  This will illuminate my grounding for the relay

after my Solenoid is grounded out to the chassis at its mounting point(bolted).

 

I do not have the Relay that the Tan Wire ties into, the what I call, the Seat/Clutch Relay. Also the Clutch Safety Switch on my tractor currently from what I

gathered looking at the tractor, the Clutch Safety Switch goes to the only relay I have, after the Solenoid. Which now, I will be connecting the Purple to Light Blue Wire

going to the ignition I have totally illuminated all electrical Safety Switches do to relays are yanked out for there by-passed because the

Purple Wire and Light Blue Wires are tied together?

 

So in theory is this, I will have no relays to worry about grounding out anything and all wiring is Positively charged at time of Running.  And in doing so,

the 15 amp. fuse should hold?  This is do to that there is no more grounding points for the 15 amp. fuse as I follow the diagram is what

I gather and reading the electrical diagram correctly?

 

Thank ya'll for your time.  I am a Newbie, and the Tractor cut grass with no issues all last year.  But since putting the engine back in

with out the Oil Sender, the Fuse issue has been a pain to deal with.  I have been in a crash course on the Wheel Horse's Diagrams and Learning Curve.  

But thanks to ya'll, I think I know what I have stated here and all makes since and past directions from other members are working out,

I should not fry anything if this thread is accurate and I am following the diagram correctly????

 

One last thing to add, the reason for the Jumper Wire is to mimic power going through the Oil Sender, and when the Oil Sender reads low oil or no oil

it passes along a negative pole.  So this is why I need the jumper, for currently I have an open but yet dead circuit, nothing going into it what so ever?

 

Thank you, maybe the Electrical Peeps are out there, and can correct or give me some feedback before I go to work on the tractor.  I do have a little time,

as I said the tractor runs currently,  just not charging, and it will be a few days before I need to use it.  

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:40 PM by Railboy

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,056]

Here is a diagram modified to suit your application with no low oil switch. 

 

 

[Railboy 8]

So do this diagram and it involves the "Clutch Neutral Safety Switch" Relay?

 

Thing is, I do not have that relay already.  When the Electrical Seat Safety Switch was taken out,

I guess they got rid of that relay for the "Clutch Neutral Safety Switch" now ties into my only Relay I have,

the one after the Solenoid.  

 

And this Relay will be taken out during the Jumper Wire By-Pass of the Purple Wire and Light Blue?  

 

Totally even getting rid of the use and possible activation of the "Clutch Neutral Safety Switch" interaction?

 

Thank you for your response and diagram.  Just looks like I am going to tie together the Purple Wire after the

Solenoid and Light Blue Wire at the Connector of the engine.   This is where my "Jumper" will be.

Edited 23 hours ago by Railboy

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,056]

You do not have any relays left - you removed the only relay the tractor ever had. The solenoid is a type of relay but it is not called that.

The clutch neutral safety switch is just that a switch. Clutch pedal down the switch closes and powers the solenoid providing it gets power from the pto start switch with the pto off.

I think your thinking is backwards.

Power goes from the solenoid battery cable side to the fuse to the ignition switch. It is the ignition switch that sends power to the pto switches, clutch switch and on to the solenoid.

The solenoid is mounted to the chassis sheet metal so that mounting grounds the solenoid. Power in on the small solenoid terminal actives the solenoid. The starter motor should then run.

Make sure you connect the correct light blue wire to the purple. Needs to be the blue wire coming from the clutch switch.

 

The diagrams call the clutch switch a neutral clutch switch and here is why.

In reality the clutch switch is used on models with a gear transmission. The clutch pedal must be down for the switch to close.

In reality the neutral switch is used on models with a hydro transmission. The motion control must be in neutral for the switch to close.

 

I do not know what you are calling a relay. There is nothing but switches on the revised diagram.

[Railboy 8]

The Purple Wire runs to a relay.

 

And the Orange Wire runs to a relay.

 

When I by-pass with a jumper from Purple to Light Blue I will

have a complete circuit.  If I have this correct?

 

Thing here is I am by-passing the Orange Wire's Relay for the Light Blue

Ties into the Tan Wire to the Ignition.  True?

 

And then I have no more relays for all of them are by-passed?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,056]

Look at the diagram. Where do you see a relay?

 

A relay is a device that acts as an electromagnetic switch to control circuits.

[Railboy 8]

I mentioned it.

 

The Relay's on my tractor are like the Relays on a Saab, and other cars ect.

There the little black boxes 1.25"X1.25"X1.25' Box Squares that have connectors plugged 

into them..

 

There is one at the Orange Wire tying in, and One at the Purple Wire Tying in.

 

This is on the diagram.

 

I am not talking of the Starter Solenoid.

Edited 22 hours ago by Railboy

[702854boy 559]

Pictures would also help with figuring out your problem

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 12,056]

I would get rid of the relays as you do not need them. They and the extra wiring are just complicating a simple system.

Make sure the back of your ignition switch matches the one on the diagram for the number of terminals and terminal identifier location. These switches all look alike but differ in the way they function. Some have identifying letters on the back plate next to the terminal and others have the identifying letters on each terminal.

The 1+2+2 cavities in the rear switch connector body should help you identify the circuits by wire color without removing the connector from the switch.

Let us know what you find.

[Railboy 8]

In my Opening Post with the Diagram on what is going on, I should be fine in what I am doing...

 

I am just looking for the conformation that were to pick up the lead(Purple Wire) on my Tractor is connected

to, the Solenoid, then from there connect to the Light Blue Wire that ties into the Tan Wire, which goes to the

Ignition.

 

Thing is this, in my area the weather is playing havoc, and the Tractor is in a 10 X 12 Shed w/no electricity so I have

to open the Shed all the way up, but there calling for rain and crummy weather for a few days.

 

So, I am into chatting on the thread, but, I want to have some explanations on why to do things or look at to have my head

in the game.

 

On connecting the Light Blue Wire with the Purple Wire, I was told to do this and the member who told me this also sent a diagram

in which I have studied.  And it all makes since.

 

So let me know what you think, sorry for the extra conversations, I have done a continuity check on the Light Blue Wire at the Engine Connector

to the Tan Wire that ties into the Ignition, so I am good there.   And the Purple Wire I find at the Starter Solenoid, but wanted to verify its pick-up

point being the Solenoid's 1/4"Nut Post?  And I guess that is it,, just that it is. the only one, so has to be.

 

But yes, my wiring has been changed around over the years.  I do not have two relays, just one, and in by passing it with a jumper, I will be taking

it out as well.  So, if you have a question here, let me know?

 

And to add to the above paragraph, the Relay that the Orange Wire and Tan Wire run into, I do not have already,  nor a Seat Safety Switch.  They were

taken out by previous owners.

 

And what was done, is the Clutch Safety Switch is tied into a lead that runs into the Purple Wire if memory serves me correct, and to the only relay I have,

the one that the Purple Wire goes to from the Solenoid.  Which to say it again, will be by-passed with the Jumper I am to put in.

[702854boy 559]

It might be a good idea to upload some photos when you get a chance so we can better visualize your problem to help you out more.

[Railboy 8]

As you will see, the wires got painted in the past.  I do continuity checks on them to make sure I stay sure of

the wires I am working on.

 

But yes, there is only one relay, none hidden, why I took the photos behind the dash, but yes, she is a bit dusty,

just the way it is.  I am trying not to move to much around.  40 year old wires really do not like shifting there state of

being, as in situated.

 

 

[squonk 45,767]

" Blowing a fuse on start up."

 

A fuse blows when too much current passes thru. Looking at the circuit my best guess is you have either a short in your key switch or your solenoid coil.

 

 

[Railboy 8]

My thing is this in your statement.

 

The Fuse Blows at time of start up.  Also, that Fuse Circuit is grounded out currently to the chassis.

 

But this is how the Fuse is tied in.  It connects to the Battery Cable at the Solenoid post with the Battery Cable.

And as you said, the Key Ignition.

 

So in cranking the engine, it starts, but during that process of starting the tractor, the fuse blows.

 

And I have continuity right now between the Fuse and Chassis as mentioned.

 

But, this is something I learned the hard way.  For I was misinformed on how it worked.

 

The Oil Sender has Positive Power going in and coming out of it during normal operation.  And some how, the fuse never blew.

The tractor cut grass all last season with no issues.  But as stated above, the Oil Sender was taken out at time of rebuilding the engine.

 

So, what I was told to do, is mimic the Oil Sender, and this is why I need to put in the "Jumper Wire" between the Purple Wire and Light Blue.

So, I or my plan is to tie into the Light Blue Wire that connects to the Tan Wire, which goes to the Ignition.  I have continuity between them, and should

work fine.

 

So also, the plan is this, disconnect the Purple Wire from the Relay and with its connector for the relay will be by-passed.  Then do continuity checks to

the chassis of the Fuse, Purple Wire, and Light Blue Wire to Tan Wire.

 

Then take it from there.

 

But as you see in the diagram, I am loosing all the relays and there Safety Switches, which is fine.  I am already missing one relay, and the last relay to

go is the one that ties into the Solenoid.  Do to the Light Blue Wire meeting the Tan Wire illuminates it.

 

I am going by the Diagram Model- 310 1987-Early 1989 one that I opened with in doing this.  It is posted above.  Not the Modded Wiring Diagram Model 310 

for the wires do not show.  That diagram if I have it right is the one which will be the way it "Could" look.  Thing is, I do not have the Relay that the Orange, Purple,

Tan and Dark Blue go to.  It was taken out before I got the Tractor when the Seat Safety Switch was taken out I guess.  And what was done, is the person jumped

in the Clutch Safety Switch and PTO into the one relay I have, the one after the Solenoid, the one that the Purple wire runs into after the Starter Solenoid itself.

 

Thank you for the input...

Edited 3 hours ago by Railboy

[squonk 45,767]

1 hour ago, Railboy said:

My thing is this in your statement.

 

The Fuse Blows at time of start up.  Also, that Fuse Circuit is grounded out currently to the chassis.

 

But this is how the Fuse is tied in.  It connects to the Battery Cable at the Solenoid post with the Battery Cable.

And as you said, the Key Ignition.

 

So in cranking the engine, it starts, but during that process of starting the tractor, the fuse blows.

 

And I have continuity right now between the Fuse and Chassis as mentioned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again. A fuse will only blow due to over current ( short circuit). This fuse is "Hot at all times" Meaning there is battery power at the fuse all the time. If the opposite side of the fuse was connected to ground, it would blow (Short circuit). Your tractor has a magneto meaning the engine is turned off by the key switch grounding the  mag. The only thing happening when you start it is the solenoid coil pulled in and the key to the start position. I'm thinking when you release the key, the key switch is shorting internally and blowing the fuse. The picture you provided shows the back of the key switch and it looks dirty and nasty. I would replace the switch with the correct magneto style switch

[Railboy 8]

So, were I am now and after my studies and yes the Wheel Horse inner workings are new to me is

to do as I mentioned.  And remove the relay.

 

This even makes since for I am getting rid of the only "Ground" I have, the one at the relay itself.

 

But here is my plan, once I do up the new wiring, do continuity checks on everything between the fuse 

and chassis.  If I find a chassis ground, track it down.

 

I have soem crummy weather for a few days, and not sure what is going on with it, but will keep advised.

 

Thank ya'll for your help.  It is that the mower runs fine, starts fine, and worked all last season.  But after

the engine was put back in with out the oil sender, the fuse issue, sorry really, I don't think it has anything

to do with the ignition.  But yes, plan on cleaning it up some, have contact cleaner.