K301 Cylinder

[702854boy 504]

Would this still be salvagable or should we try to find a new block?

[WHX?? 55,024]

What ya got there buddy... not the best pic but crank will need to be ground fer sure. It looks like some chips off the bottom of the bore? Might be able to smooth them out and runner. Hard to tell the actual carnage from yer pic. Inspect the block carefully for cracks. Looks like a rod let loose. 

Edited 21 hours ago by WHX??

[702854boy 504]

Yeah, I forgot to check the oil on a leaky tractor and the rod grenaded, we just weren't sure if the engine was runable withe the little chunk and tiny crack at the bottom of the bore. This is the rod that came out of it.

Edited 20 hours ago by 702854boy

[WHX?? 55,024]

Nothin we ain't never seen. Somebody's gotta go to mandatory oil check school tho. 

Tell ya right now yer looking at least 300 in rebuilding tho if it's even possible. new piston, rod, gaskets, machine work ...yeah all of that. 

[Achto 31,016]

You will need to see if the damage extends into the travel of the piston rings. I have one engine with a chunk missing on the bottom of the cylinder that I rebuilt years ago. Runs just fine.

[702854boy 504]

The piston somehow still looks okay and we have a k321 that I took the rod out of last night and it looks like it's all right so I think we'll just have to measure and make sure everything is in spec and if it is just take the aluminum off of the steel crank and we should be good to go hopefully

Just now, Achto said:

You will need to see if the damage extends into the travel of the piston rings. I have one engine with a chunk missing on the bottom of the cylinder that I rebuilt years ago. Runs just fine.

According to our eyecrometers, it appears to be below where the rings and everything go.

[WHX?? 55,024]

Just now, Achto said:

extends into the travel of the piston rings.

Yep hard to tell from yer pic. I don't think it is but that has no say on the block being compromised. 

[WHX?? 55,024]

1 minute ago, 702854boy said:

According to our eyecrometers

Man after our own heart Dan!!!

[ineedanother 1,875]

Was that a standard piston or had it already been bored?

[702854boy 504]

I believe it was a standard

[ineedanother 1,875]

3 minutes ago, 702854boy said:

I believe it was a standard

I would check it before considering rebuild. If it's anything but standard I would seriously consider setting it aside before investing in a second rebuild. JMO.

[8ntruck 8,606]

I'd do some dye checking in the cylinder to see if there are any cracks.  If no cracks, and all the parts fit and are useable, I'd grind the fracture face smooth to help preventing cracks to start there in the future.

[WHX?? 55,024]

1 hour ago, 8ntruck said:

I'd do some dye checking 

Now seriously  Truck do you really think a 14 year old boy is going  to do that?

Be like Handy Don or RI Bill doing moon shots with a vertical. 

Edited 17 hours ago by WHX??

[ri702bill 11,260]

8 hours ago, 702854boy said:

The piston somehow still looks okay and we have a k321 that I took the rod out of last night and it looks like it's all right so I think we'll just have to measure and make sure everything is in spec and if it is just take the aluminum off of the steel crank and we should be good to go hopefully

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run..... to get a qualified local second opinion. First should be cylinder bore measurements. This engine was consuming a lot of oil, possibly due to the bore being out of round, tapered, or scored. As @ineedanother offered, if it has high usage wear and an oversized piston already, you most likely now own one half of a collectable pair of Kohler book ends.

To do the measurements telescoping bore gages and preferably a micrometer are needed. Not the time to use the $12 HFT dial caliper.

The piston may have stress cracks too. And the camshaft may have the same if it got spanked by center section of the rod....

Yet, I once drove our SBC racecar off the trailer with the #5 rod in the same condition as yours in my younger days..... Then yanked & tossed that engine.....

[squonk 45,535]

10 hours ago, 702854boy said:

Would this still be salvagable or should we try to find a new block?

Multiple stress area's. Vertical scratches. Sleeve it or toss it.

[oldlineman 1,652]

I'm with squonk on this one, was already eating oil so that tells me most likely will need bored oversize, you have a damaged skirt that doesn't help so with machine work and new parts I would look for a replacement in better shape. JMO

[Achto 31,016]

10 hours ago, 702854boy said:

The piston somehow still looks okay and we have a k321 that I took the rod out of last night and it looks like it's all right so I think we'll just have to measure and make sure everything is in spec and if it is just take the aluminum off of the steel crank and we should be good to go hopefully

 

11 hours ago, 702854boy said:

 

Looking at the picture of the crank. I can almost guaranty that it will need to be turned down.

There also appears to be a crack in the cylinder moving off to the left from the gusset area that would concern me,

If you do not have the proper measuring tools then I would take the block & crank to a machine shop to have the bore & crank pin measured so that you know for sure what you need.

 

Not sure what your budget is, but I do not see this as being an easy fix with some used parts.  

 

 

[702854boy 504]

9 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Now seriously  Truck do you really think a 14 year old boy is going  to do that?

Dad thinks he has some at work that we could use.

 

3 hours ago, ri702bill said:

This engine was consuming a lot of oil, possibly due to the bore being out of round, tapered, or scored.

It never had any smoke and we think the oil was coming out of the gaskets and everything on the engine because when we got it the engine was very oil moist.

 

3 hours ago, ri702bill said:

to get a qualified local second opinion. First should be cylinder bore measurements.

I was gonna have dad do this part as I watched him measure everything on our 702 engine a few years ago when we had it tore apart but I didn't pay close enough attention to know what I'm doing.

[squonk 45,535]

These engines are a dime a dozen. Don't waste your time on it. Get a better one and rebuild that instead. A sleeve and crank grind will cost the same as a good used engine.

[WHX?? 55,024]

1 hour ago, 702854boy said:

Dad thinks he has some at work that we could use.

If that's the case Trucks idea isn't the worst. Wasn't there a way to crack check with household shop stuff?

 

2 hours ago, Achto said:

crack in the cylinder moving off to the left

Possible 

 

Not sure is I would try and save it or not but the boys said this 241 was shot. Runs great and a solid worker these days. 

Edited 6 hours ago by WHX??

[702854boy 504]

There is a crack at the top of the breakage but we weren't sure if the engine would still be runable as it doesn't go up into the ring area

[8ntruck 8,606]

47 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

If that's the case Trucks idea isn't the worst. Wasn't there a way to crack check with household shop stuff?

 

I've never tried it, but I read somewhere transmission fluid and talcum powder could work.  Penetrating oil might work, too.

 

The process would be to apply tranny fluid, let it soak, clean the surface (solvent dampened rag?), then dust on some talcum powder to draw the oil out of any cracks.

 

47 minutes ago, 702854boy said:

There is a crack at the top of the breakage but we weren't sure if the engine would still be runable as it doesn't go up into the ring area

I think it would be runnable, but the thermal cycling the block sees might cause the crack to continue to grow.

[sqrlgtr 2,170]

6 hours ago, squonk said:

These engines are a dime a dozen. Don't waste your time on it. Get a better one and rebuild that instead. A sleeve and crank grind will cost the same as a good used engine.

I will have to agree with @squonkon this one and I'm a pretty frugal type.