1973 10hp 8spd Revival/Budget Resto

[Chris689 60]

So I bought this tractor roughly three weeks ago. Not running and trans completely locked. Getting it on the trailer was a lot of fun. Got it home, pushed it in the barn and figured I wasn’t going to get anywhere with it for a little while.

Well one night I randomly decided I was gonna pull the carb and clean it. Brought it to work and took it apart. None of the gaskets tore but I did find basically sand or god knows what in the bowl.

Threw it in the ultrasonic for a few hours, didn’t have any new gaskets at the time so I figured just to find out if it would run I just slapped the carb back together with the old gaskets and threw it back on the engine. Ran new fuel line and filter. Put a small amount of gas in the tank and it finally fired, took a little to fill the bowl and re-prime the pump. 

[Chris689 60]

Got it running then it was time for the trans. Had no idea what condition it was in just that it wouldn’t roll and the shifter was in neutral. While running I put it in reverse and let the clutch out and it went backwards. I then ran it through all the gear and hi-lo range and it worked perfectly. I decided it was a good time to throw the plow on even though the handle wouldn’t lock in the up position. After days of juicing the handle down the button still wouldn’t pop up on its own. Took the handle and rock shaft out and found the lock block to be cockeyed in its track causing it to jam. Separated it from the button rod and put a small bend in the rod to match the contour of the handle and it worked perfectly.

[Chris689 60]

Next was the blade angle lever. Because this doesn’t have the separate clutch and brake pedal like my 77 C120, the different foot board wouldn’t allow me to pull handle past the center position. Cut a small notch and now the lever has full range of motion.

Edited Wednesday at 08:44 PM by Chris689

[WHX?? 54,318]

15 minutes ago, Chris689 said:

trans completely locked.

Frozen water in it? Been there done that. Time to drain and flush.

 

Nice Allis  ther ... 

[Chris689 60]

Finally the tractor is 100% usable but not 100% done so there will be more to come. Right now it’s being used as the snowplow when I don’t have enough snow to use the 120 with the blower. It’s gonna get all the main sheet metal pulled in the spring and going to get just a quick scuff and shoot and new decals hence the “Budget Resto”. Don’t want it to be too nice that I’m afraid to use it lol. Then the 120 will be next on the docket but that’s just paint.

[Chris689 60]

3 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Frozen water in it? Been there done that. Time to drain and flush.

 

Nice Allis  ther ... 

Thank you that was last years project. It’s a Simplicity 5212 that I did as an Allis look-a-like. Previous owner swapped in an 18hp Briggs. 
 

Im not sure if it was water or just stuck in gear. The second I let the clutch out it moved so I’m assuming it was just stuck. Regardless I will be doing a drain and flush.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,970]

If it sits for a while to give the oil/water time to separate and you remove the drain plug from the left rear of the transmission bottom water will come out first if there is any. Lift the front of the tractor so the oil ahead of the hump in the transmission also gets drained.

[ri702bill 11,128]

36 minutes ago, Chris689 said:

Regardless I will be doing a drain and flush.

Pull the trans dipstick - if the fluid is all amber / clear - good. If is tan / white, it has water in it. Remember you need to elevate the front of the tractor about a foot to allow all the fluid to get over the internal hump in the bottom of the case to drain...

Bill

[Chris689 60]

Would you guys happen to know the quantity of the trans. I believe it’s 85w90 or 80w90 gear oil, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Edited Wednesday at 10:38 PM by Chris689

[ri702bill 11,128]

You will need 2 quarts. Not that it will take that to fill it - put in 1-1/2 and read the dipstick. Top Off to suit.

A drinking straw down alongside the funnel will vent it as you pour if using the dipstick tube to fill...

[Chris689 60]

16 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

You will need 2 quarts. Not that it will take that to fill it - put in 1-1/2 and read the dipstick. Top Off to suit.

A drinking straw down alongside the funnel will vent it as you pour if using the dipstick tube to fill...

Perfect thank you I appreciate it. 

[Chris689 60]

I’m also looking for a little insight into the PTO bearings. Should I replace them before they possibly go bad? Due to how long it’s been sitting I’m considering replacing the bearings and the seal is junk anyway. Also the grease is old so I pulled the PTO to clean everything out anyway because it spins even when not engaged. The shaft is kinda sticky from the old grease which I believe is causing this. I will be installing a PTO brake and the bracket required to mount the brake since I’m assuming 1973 didn’t have them at all as mine doesn’t have one. All in all, should I just pull everything, clean and re-grease, replace the seal and re-install or just replace the bearings and seal and obviously clean things up.  

Edited yesterday at 12:26 AM by Chris689

[kpinnc 16,935]

4 hours ago, Chris689 said:

100% usable but not 100% done

 

Nothing wrong with that. Some of my favorite tractors were exactly the same. 

[WHX?? 54,318]

1 hour ago, Chris689 said:

Should I replace them before they possibly go bad?

Depends upon what you got planned to run off PTO. 

Personally I very seldom, if any ever had to replace the long needle bearings. Mainly the seal and thrust bearing if it feels rough or sloppy.  Seal fer sure. Clean & re-grease is the main thing.  It's amazing how long they (thrust bearing) last but if your gonna mow hard yes replace it. 

Yes 80/90 in tranny. 

[Chris689 60]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Yes 80/90 in tranny

Perfect thank you!

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Depends upon what you got planned to run off PTO

I will potentially be running my 42” mower. I will mostly be using the Allis knock off to mow since that’s really all I can do with it. My 120 will eventually run a tiller and it runs the blower in the winter. This will get busted out every once in a while to mow just to scratch the WH itch. Otherwise it’s just for plowing snow or plowing a garden when I get a Brinly plow.

[oliver2-44 11,193]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Depends upon what you got planned to run off PTO. 

Personally I very seldom, if any ever had to replace the long needle bearings. Mainly the seal and thrust bearing if it feels rough or sloppy.  Seal fer sure. Clean & re-grease is the main thing.  It's amazing how long they (thrust bearing) last but if your gonna mow hard yes replace it. 

Yes 80/90 in tranny. 

  If the thrust bear feels ok, I still pop them out, lift the seal and degrease them on a new to me tractor.  
Many people lease the PTO brake off to make it easier to remove and install bents on the PTO. If their is no brake, no tools are require to remove/install belt on PTO 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by oliver2-44

[oliver2-44 11,193]

6 hours ago, Chris689 said:. None of the gaskets tore but I did find basically sand or god knows what in the bowl.

Threw it in the ultrasonic for a few hours

Most likely dried ethanol crap. W e recommend using ethanol free gas. 
I love my ultrasonic. 

[Chris689 60]

1 minute ago, oliver2-44 said:

Most likely dried ethanol crap. W e recommend using ethanol free gas. 
I love my ultrasonic. 

Unfortunately I’m unaware of anywhere near me that has ethanol free. I at least only run premium in all my small engines (yeah still has ethanol) but I also don’t let anything I have with an engine sit for really more than 2-3 weeks without running just to keep things moving. 
 

I’ve honestly never used an ultrasonic to clean a carb until now. I’ve always used super clean to soak everything then carb clean and compd air to blow everything out. I threw this into the ultrasonic at work during lunch and let it soak for 4 hours. Needless to say between the tractors and the snowmobiles i need to invest in one lol.

[oliver2-44 11,193]

Buy as big of ultrasonic as you can afford. 
Mine came from Walmart online, not stocked in store. 

Edited 22 hours ago by oliver2-44

[Pullstart 68,737]

9 hours ago, Chris689 said:

I at least only run premium in all my small engines

Honestly, that’s just a waste of money compared to 87.  The ethanol content is the same, and the low compression of these small engines does not require the octane levels.  Remember octane does not build power, it prevents pre-detonation.  

[Chris689 60]

10 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Remember octane does not build power, it prevents pre-detonation

Yeah that’s the only reason I run it. I’ve had a few machines over the years and an F150 I converted to run a carb that I ran 87 in by mistake because I wasn’t paying attention at the pump and as a result the pinging was god awful. So I’ve made it a point to run premium in anything with a carb because of this issue. By no means do I believe octane is a power adder. 

[ri702bill 11,128]

I have read that the base ethanol 87 octane is a "Dirty" fuel - not as filtered & refined as the higher octane grades. Good enough to be pushed thru a fuel injector nozzle at high pressure; not sufficiently clean enough to be used in a small engine that has .012" or so feed holes (orificeseses?) in a carburetor....

[Chris689 60]

40 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

I have read that the base ethanol 87 octane is a "Dirty" fuel - not as filtered & refined as the higher octane grades. Good enough to be pushed thru a fuel injector nozzle at high pressure; not sufficiently clean enough to be used in a small engine that has .012" or so feed holes (orificeseses?) in a carburetor....

I believe I read something similar in a hot rod article. I’ve honestly never researched into it too much I’ve only ever gone off of experience. Growing up riding dirt bikes and snowmobiles my dad only ever ran premium in all our stuff. Bikes, sleds, lawn equipment. He always just said it’s better on the small engines. As a kid I never asked why. Once I was out on my own I adopted the same practice. It wasn’t until I built my F150 a couple years ago that I really saw a difference in engine performance. It was a 1991 F150 302efi. I only ever ran 87 in it. The truck gave me a lot of problems (not fuel related) the first year but when it did run it ran great. After the 3rd time it left me on the side of the road with my 4 year old I decided to convert it to a carburetor. Ripped all the factory efi out, factory ignition and redid all of it. The only thing the ECU controlled was the fuel pumps. Once I started driving it I had horrible issues with detonation. No matter how much I changed the timing I couldn’t go over 1/4 throttle without it pinging something fierce. After troubleshooting for a week I realized I still had 87 in the tank. On the second tank of 91 I set timing back to factory and that truck ran perfect.  I did mess up once or twice not paying attention at the pump and ran 87, pinging immediately came back. I’ve worked on many vehicles and built a number of small engines over the years, and this was the first time I saw octane ever make a difference. 

[oldlineman 1,628]

Check the rubber boot around shifter for tears, replace to stop water getting into trany.

[Chris689 60]

So update on the tractor. I did a thing today that was pretty dumb. I’ve never had a bearing fight me so bad. I took the PTO off to clean it up. Front bearing didn’t sound good so I removed it. I figured out why it never disengaged. The needle bearings were basically glued in place from the old grease and wouldn’t spin so it just stuck to the crank and spun. So I decided to remove it to try and thoroughly clean it. The stupidity hit when removing the needle bearing. Or more or less destroying it. The thing didn’t budge, destroyed the cage and the race is still stuck in the hub. Needless to say it was a rough day. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Chris689