856 aftermarket carb/choke adjustment help

[FLtractor 95]

Evening, 

New aftermarket carb installed, been adjusting linkages.

1. Throttle will open and closed but has lots of resistance and is difficult, possibly due to bent cable part that goes inside the coil looking cable sheath, but will open and close throttle handle all the way. I think this should operate as normal and produce throttle as desired once cable greased. 

2. Choke, have opened choke handle all the way and tightened bolt onto chassis to hold tension, however it will not physically move the brass linkage piece on the carb.. I have moved the brass piece up and down since it appears to have 2 positions it can be set. Any ideas why it is not moving the piece yet the handle will fully extend and has full tension on the cable when moving? Should choke  brass piece but up or have that protruding to the front? Unsure how to fix this issue since never delt with replacing a carburetor ever before. 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:21 PM by FLtractor

[pfrederi 19,270]

So much wrong.  Take  picture that shows the governor arm  and the disc at its base... that is were the cable goes not the carb.

Edited yesterday at 10:29 PM by pfrederi

[pfrederi 19,270]

Choke goes in the outer hole  and the  cable clamp needs to be close to the carb and holding the sheath tight

Edited yesterday at 10:33 PM by pfrederi

[FLtractor 95]

19 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

So much wrong.  Take  picture that shows the governor arm  and the disc at its base... that is were the cable goes not the carb.

Oh. I put it in the holes where the previous owner had the cables installed.

1. For Throttle- which disc hole should be the cable be in? 
2. Due to the current throttle bolt tension.. and in relation to the now needing to run cable to governor disc.. where should I bolt tension down throttle cable? 
3. you mentioned the choke bolt tension needing to be close to carb.. here is where previous owner had it, should I move it to the bolt directly above that I circled In picture? 

Edited yesterday at 10:45 PM by FLtractor

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

here is a little better idea of how choke should be ran, i cnat find pic of throttle but @pfrederi has a pretty good one above. Do you have the little L brackect for the choke cable that bolts to the engine tin? If not should be easy to make.

Edited 23 hours ago by sqrlgtr

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

the link coming from governor arm seems to be alright I have expermented putting it in the different holes and you can make them less/more sensitive throttle by doing that.

[WHX?? 53,343]

20 minutes ago, FLtractor said:

Oh. I put it in the holes where the previous owner had the cables installed

First mistake... never go by what a PO has done. Get pictures from guys here on how it's done correctly. 

Second mistake ... read the Kohler manual. If you do not have one one will be provided. It's all in there with pictures on how it's done including adjusting the governor. 

Edited 23 hours ago by WHX??

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

2 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

First mistake... never go by what a PO has done. Get pictures from guys here on how it's done correctly. 

Second mistake ... read the Kohler manual. If you do not have one one will be provided. 

You get away from Wheel Horse enthusiast aint no telling what you run into.

[FLtractor 95]

27 minutes ago, sqrlgtr said:

here is a little better idea of how choke should be ran, i cnat find pic of throttle but @pfrederi has a pretty good one above. Do you have the little L brackect for the choke cable that bolts to the engine tin? If not should be easy to make.

Do not have bracket.. will need to make one or find one. Thank you for the pictures. 

[FLtractor 95]

25 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

First mistake... never go by what a PO has done. Get pictures from guys here on how it's done correctly. 

Second mistake ... read the Kohler manual. If you do not have one one will be provided. It's all in there with pictures on how it's done including adjusting the governor. 

My issue is I’ve never worked on anything engine or carb related before ever.. so didn’t know what is factory right and done differently, since it ran good when I bought it. 
Is this the manual I should get? 
https://farmmanualsfast.com/products/kohler-k181-engine-service-manual?variant=39252908703795&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&srsltid=AfmBOor-aiiWB_IRoCjGg-2ZIv8N-zd6CYELjbGQor3JnrR6rNEuiWpgNk8

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

@FLtractor have you checked out the manual section right here on Red Square? There is all kinds of info to be gained there. IDK how to link one to this thread but some of the others do all the time. @WHX?? @pfrederi can yall help him out?

[Achto 30,204]

@FLtractor here is a good manual for you. Free down load.

 

https://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/tp_2379.pdf

 

 

I see that your governor wheel has the extension arm on it. The cable should be run over the top of the muffler and hooked to the extension arm. A pic for reference.

[WHX?? 53,343]

  on running the coil wire behind the bearing plate Squirrely ... I hate it when it just lays on top the motor.

 

Search box upper right FL . Type in 856 and use the drop down box to check mark files. Hit the search button and it will come up with any and all files pertaining to a 856 including Kohler OM, IPL and service manuals. 

 

There ya go Dan's pic is excellent. The service manual will tell you how to adjust the arm the cable is clamped to to adjust engine speeds. 

Edited 22 hours ago by WHX??

[adsm08 3,868]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

So much wrong.  

 

 

2 hours ago, FLtractor said:

Oh. I put it in the holes where the previous owner had the cables installed.

 

 

 

Rule #1 of wrenching: Assume any work that you did not do yourself was done wrong.

 

Rule #2 of wrenching: If problem persists assume any work you did do yourself was done wrong.

 

Rule # 3 of wrenching: When all else fails, read the instructions.

Edited 21 hours ago by adsm08

[WHX?? 53,343]

There ya go Ad ... that needs to go on a sign in everyone's shop! 

[FLtractor 95]

37 minutes ago, Achto said:

@FLtractor here is a good manual for you. Free down load.

 

https://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/tp_2379.pdf

 

 

I see that your governor wheel has the extension arm on it. The cable should be run over the top of the muffler and hooked to the extension arm. A pic for reference.

So I understand better.. do you have a zoomed out picture to see how the throttle cable passes over the muffler? 
the extension arm I should connect my throttle cable to is the metal part with the small circle I’ve circled in my picture here? Same as piece your cable connected to

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

@FLtractor does that disk rotate and thus move governor arm. My 857 was frooze up when I got it and the PO had done sumin similar as your pic. That might be what they done to yours also. Was not a big problem for mine as I just took Gov. arm off and cleaned everything up good and reset govern shaft to where it was supposed to be and now as good as new. Yours may not be frooze up but if it want rotate counerclockwise then you might have to clean up and reset everything. Not a big deal but can be intimidating if you have not done it before. That manual should have everything you need in it to do the job.

Edited 21 hours ago by sqrlgtr

[WHX?? 53,343]

Just loop it up over the in between the muffler and the exhaust pipe. It can come up from the bottom and use the holes like Paul's pic. Works just as good when adjusted proper. 

 

Some more education...

There is not a (factory) small engine in the world that has the throttle connected directly to the throttle plate. Throttle is always connected to the governor and gov spring loaded to the plate. 

 

Unless your pulling in @Achto s class. He has a string run down his pant leg and by passes the gov for a little extra giver. 

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

almost forgot had to take governor bushing off and clean it up good also

[WHX?? 53,343]

3 minutes ago, sqrlgtr said:

My 857 was frooze up

Really cold down ther Squirrelly or spell check just on the fritz?!?!? 

[sqrlgtr 1,333]

wondering why its taking me so loong to tyype. too mmany lettters.

[Handy Don 15,196]

Apologies @FLtractor, seeing a WH that’s been abused can try the patience of some of us. 

[FLtractor 95]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Just loop it up over the in between the muffler and the exhaust pipe. It can come up from the bottom and use the holes like Paul's pic. Works just as good when adjusted proper. 

 

Some more education...

There is not a (factory) small engine in the world that has the throttle connected directly to the throttle plate. Throttle is always connected to the governor and gov spring loaded to the plate. 

 

Unless your pulling in @Achto s class. He has a string run down his pant leg and by passes the gov for a little extra giver. 

When I did drive the tractor before it stopped running and wouldn’t start.. wanted to but wouldn’t most likely due to the ethanol fuel used for last 4 years previous owner … when it ran it didn’t seem to have any idling or speed issues at all, nothing to indicate the governor was malfunctioning… so my question is if I did leave the governor attached to the throttle plate .. as you said no factory engine run cable that way… what could that do long term to my engine? Want to learn and understand for future reference of why tractor sounds and functions 

Edited 19 hours ago by FLtractor

[Handy Don 15,196]

29 minutes ago, FLtractor said:

When I did drive the tractor before it stopped running and wouldn’t start.. wanted to but wouldn’t most likely due to the ethanol fuel used for last 4 years previous owner … when it ran it didn’t seem to have any idling or speed issues at all, nothing to indicate the governor was malfunctioning… so my question is if I did leave the governor attached to the throttle plate .. as you said no factory engine run cable that way… what could that do long term to my engine? Want to learn and understand for future reference of why tractor sounds and functions 

I’ll chip in here...

 

As connected in the picture below, you have direct control of the throttle but you also have trapped the governor, forcing it to move in a way that will eventually cause damage to it, if it hasn’t already happened. 

 

Normally, you set the throttle so the engine turns at a desired speed. If you go up a hill or hit some heavy grass with the mower deck, the engine will slow down due to the increased load. When the governor is properly included, it “steps in” and applies more throttle to keep the engine speed as you wanted it. After extra load has eased, the governor will reduce the throttle.

 

The way this happens is that the throttle lever pushes one end of a spring. The other end is attached to the governor. The governor is attached to the carb’s throttle plate and the governor’s internal mechanism either stretches or relaxes the spring based on engine speed. Slower speed, more stretch, higher throttle. Faster speed, less stretch, lower throttle.

 

The spring balances the throttle level input, the governor pressure, and the throttle plate opening. Your current linkage has bypassed the spring and is holding the governor in a position its mechanism is fighting against. Something will have to give.

 

 

4 hours ago, FLtractor said:

 

 

[FLtractor 95]

19 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I’ll chip in here...

 

As connected in the picture below, you have direct control of the throttle but you also have trapped the governor, forcing it to move in a way that will eventually cause damage to it, if it hasn’t already happened. 

 

Normally, you set the throttle so the engine turns at a desired speed. If you go up a hill or hit some heavy grass with the mower deck, the engine will slow down due to the increased load. When the governor is properly included, it “steps in” and applies more throttle to keep the engine speed as you wanted it. After extra load has eased, the governor will reduce the throttle.

 

The way this happens is that the throttle lever pushes one end of a spring. The other end is attached to the governor. The governor is attached to the carb’s throttle plate and the governor’s internal mechanism either stretches or relaxes the spring based on engine speed. Slower speed, more stretch, higher throttle. Faster speed, less stretch, lower throttle.

 

The spring balances the throttle level input, the governor pressure, and the throttle plate opening. Your current linkage has bypassed the spring and is holding the governor in a position its mechanism is fighting against. Something will have to give.

 

 

 

Thank you for all the helpful explanations and info. I came across a Wheelhorse on marketplace today, one picture of the Governor throttle linkage was interesting to me.. would hooking them togther be a different proper way to get the throttle control AND allow safe governer without causing damage ? I have read the Kohler manual someone linked above regarding throttle carb so I do understand better what you explained the proper linkage method.