Bad Boy, the Wheel Horse of the Future?

[JoeM 9,323]

After having a couple Bad Boy machines in the shop, I started looking around at their other products. Pretty well built and simple. 

Mostly American made. I really did not know how big this company has grown. I just assumed they were in the TSC stores etc. 

At the end of the vid is a machine that is a hybrid. Runs on battery but has an on board charging engine and generator. 

I suppose the purpose is to allow the battery to be charged if you get near the end of a cycle of mowing and have to finish. Or maybe if you are a lawn care pro the ability to charge the battery when moving between jobs? 

I was just trying to logic the setup. I know now a days some communities like to limit noise, Hency battery mowers? IDK 

 

[WHX?? 53,372]

What blows me away is the multitude of OEM's that are making this kind of stuff now. Stihl for example ... their stuff is incredible and they are somewhat newcomers to the z turn market. I forget which brand it is but they have one out that "remembers" your lawn and drives automatically. JD maybe? with technology from their auto combines? All the operator has to do is sit in the seat and drink a beer! Yes and then there is the EV/hybrid crap... mind boggling. 

Then there's Scag, Dixie, Grasshopper, Exmark, Husky ...  list is endless. 

Edited December 6 by WHX??
speeling

[ri702bill 10,642]

44 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

they have one out that "remembers" your lawn and drives automatically. JD maybe

Most likely They have had autonomous GPS guided Combines for about 2 decades now. When I worked at Stoneridge, we made the steering angle sensors to feedback info to the guided steering control. Almost made axle torque sensors to detect axle twist and failure. Way too costly and not field repair friendly. That was a "No-Go".

[Handy Don 15,251]

The “onboard generator” design is for the reasons you mentioned, range extension and “offline” charging, but also for mechanical simplicity and flexibility

Only one drive mechanism (electric).

Battery charge control electronics are already onboard and wired to the batteries so only a power source is needed.

Generator can be positioned where convenient and simply wired in.

Generator always runs at an efficient optimal speed (and only when the operator chooses)

Motor-generator pair can be sized to match desired charging rate or even to provide “burst” power

 

Railroad locomotives have long used the motor-generator system, though without batteries, for the flexibility and control of power delivery as well as for efficiency. Diesel submarines with batteries have too.

[Handy Don 15,251]

6 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Most likely They have had autonomous GPS guided Combines for about 2 decades now. When I worked at Stoneridge, we made the steering angle sensors to feedback info to the guided steering control. Almost made axle torque sensors to detect axle twist and failure. Way too costly and not field repair friendly. That was a "No-Go".

Standard GPS alone doesn’t have sufficient precision to guide a lawn mower (or even a combine!) so they supplement it with a real-time motion-tracking system (often referred to as RTK or real-time kinematics) that tracks actual direction and distance using electro-mechanical sensors on the machine (as @ri702bill noted). 

Similar technology in self-guided home floor cleaners. 

One weakness is that wheel slippage can frustrate them!

Edited December 6 by Handy Don

[Racinbob 12,432]

I've been looking at some zero turns. Several things keep me coming back to the Bad Boy R series. I haven't seen another one with a deck that heavy.

All I've seen at TSC are the residential models. Still pretty impressive.

Edited December 6 by Racinbob

[Gasaholic 342]

Yeah Id love to see some actual feedback from real users that have a TSC bad boy mower as far as durability and ruggedness... I've been considering getting a new mower in zero turn format but all the usual crap I used to see in my repair shop - Consumer crap from Husqvarna and MTD models all had just too many durability problems - stuff breaks too easy..  So I would want something on a par with ExMark, Hustler, Scag, Bunton and the like - commercial duty but at a consumer level price point - not about to blow 10 grand on a mower , but I could see 3-4 grand on a tough built Pro-Grade Consumer model... Fabricated decks are typically pretty robust but there's other stuff too - frame construction (welds, cracks, etc) steering (HOw many wear points they have - and adjustability/maintenance of same - Ive seen a lot of those that invariably ended up with steering problems after a few years of use with linkages and crap wearing out pinned linkage holes oblong, etc.) 

[ri702bill 10,642]

10 minutes ago, Gasaholic said:

HOw many wear points they have - and adjustability/maintenance of same

I'd look at  a model that has been on the market, design unchanged, for a few years. Long enough to have gained a track record and a reputation - either good or bad... ( look at the long run Ariens had on their 6 HP 24" SnoThros - more than a decade) Hopefully you find a clear cut winner...

[JoeM 9,323]

1 hour ago, Gasaholic said:

TSC bad boy mower as far as durability and ruggedness

The first one I had in was from TSC. The reason it came to me, TSC would not send out a mechanic to repair the machine. That is all I was told.  Both coils went open on the engine, one month old. The guy needed to get it going.

The second one was a dealer machine that belonged to a friend of mine. He wanted it serviced and a plow installed. This machine had almost 300 hours, blades were fair, and the rest looked good considering the guys runs it like he stole it. 

I see the machines are also now sold at Bona Fide mower and lawn tractor dealers. I would definitely go to a dealer just due to the issue with the one machine.

[kpinnc 16,230]

2 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

So I would want something on a par with ExMark, Hustler, Scag, Bunton and the like - commercial duty but at a consumer level price point - not about to blow 10 grand on a mower

 

You can also look at Bad Boys number one rival- Spartan. They have some interesting machines. 

 

Most of the ZTRs on the market have fabricated decks. As someone who has and loves his zero turn, let me make some suggestions:

 

1. Transmissions- the most important (and expensive) part of the functionality to the machine. The best are true pump and seperate motor designs. Most have moved to much cheaper combined (Hydrogear) setups, so do your homework and pick a good one. Parker hydraulics makes the best of the combined systems, literally just sticking a pump and motor together with a manifold. Kubota makes thier own transmission too but it seems to be decent. 

 

2. Engine choice- somewhat self explanatory. Sad to say, but stay away from Kohler. Nothing they make now is what it used to be. This is one place you also have to do your homework. Vanguard and Kawasaki are better here in most cases. 

 

3. Hardware- things like deck spindles and caster/ wheel bearings. Spindles and pullies are everywhere on a zero turn. This is also a common shortcut used by manufacturers. Deck spindles are expensive and a common failure point. Make sure yours are rugged. The better machines use conical, serviceable wheel bearings. Watch out for pot metal sealed bearing junk. 

 

4. Bells and whistles- there are always new gimmicks to add to the price point. A comfortable seat and a soft start clutch controller are great. Some have good shock absorption systems. Much more than that is just fluff. Act accordingly. 

 

There are other things to consider but that will get you started. Zero turns are complex machines compared to Wheel Horses and much more powerful. 30+hp engines are common. My Scag weighs nearly 1000 pounds. There are cheaper homeowners models and there are true commercial grade machines with everything in between. What you find at a big box store (even TSC) are cheap light duty compared to the heavy duty machines. 

 

I had to buy used to get my Scag. Like you said, I'm in no position to purchase a $20k lawn mower. While I couldn't afford a new commercial machine, I also couldn't justify $8k on store bought junk. You have more options nowadays. 

 

 

[Racinbob 12,432]

My head was pretty much spinning looking at all the options. As kp mentioned, the transmission differences. Ya want better, ya gotta pay. Again, I just keep migrating to the Bad Boys. I haven't seen any other mower with a 3 gauge deck which obviously contributes to the 1600-1700# weight, the transmissions are indeed Parkers on the upper end but there's a ton of different Parkers, things that can be visually checked seem as heavy as the next. Justify the big $$? Don't know yet. I've got a lot of pondering to do, mainly on the various transmissions. 

As far as battery goes. It just wouldn't work for me so I haven't researched them. But it could be great for some folks. 

[JoeM 9,323]

20 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

not about to blow 10 grand on a mower

Yep, just what I said in the 80's when I looked at new Wheel Horses.

Bought a used 75 in 87 for 1/3 of the money. And ran it for years. 

 

Then I waited 20 some odd years so I could have me one, or two or three.....well you get the picture.

[WHX?? 53,372]

19 hours ago, JoeM said:

a plow installed.

You sayin Joe a guy can plow with them??? Guessing you mean a front blade ... don't even wanna see The Pullstart dropping his Scag in a furrow! Let's not give him ideas shall we?!?!?

21 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

not about to blow 10 grand on a mower , but I could see 3-4 grand

Don't have to spend even close to that Gas.

. A few years ago when my dad passed he left me a green & yellow  ...  gulp ... lower end zt. 

Now what was I gonna do with that I got a 520 with a 48 and and more 60's horses with decks than a man has right to own and not a whole lot of grass to mow. Most of the time she does it with her 38-14 HLX vertical.

 

Figured I was gonna sell it and buy more  since it wasn't exactly a family heirloom. 

 

Turned out it was only 2800 brand new and be lucky I get 2 for it. It was like new too. Used it a couple of times and kinda got hooked on it so kept it and use it quite abit now for those quick mows. Glad I did since I keep it at the plow field for mowing three acres of lush grass & since the elderly owner couldn't to do it anymore. 

It does scalp a bit if yer giving it. The anti scalp rollers need to be casters.

Fairly stout machine for a low end JD & the money but need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to operate it with all the safeties. 

 

Since I got no money I cut that grass for free... 

 

 

Edited December 7 by WHX??

[JoeM 9,323]

58 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Guessing you mean a front blade ... don't even wanna see The Pullstart dropping his Scag in a furrow! Let's not give him ideas shall we?!?!?

Oh my that PS thing is funny.

 

Here is the project. One pin and two clips, there is room for tire chains but IDK. 

I added the snow plow and Geezer Bar. The bar is for helping the dude to get on and off cause he ain't to steady. 

I cut a little grass with it while it was here, it is fast but just don't like it. Also it was not good on the slopes. 

[kpinnc 16,230]

4 hours ago, JoeM said:

cut a little grass with it while it was here, it is fast but just don't like it. Also it was not good on the slopes. 

 

I can't see how a snow blade would be remotely effective. ZTRs certainly have the torque to push it, but if the blade was angled only one rear wheel would carry the load. No fixed front wheels to hold track...

 

Maybe the ability to spin one wheel faster would add directional stability. Just seems difficult like mowing along a hillside. It can be done but wheel slip is common. 

[JoeM 9,323]

3 hours ago, kpinnc said:

how a snow blade would be remotely effective

I know, defies logic, but I went on you tube and folks are using them. I will say most I have watched were on level ground.

[kpinnc 16,230]

3 hours ago, JoeM said:

know, defies logic, but I went on you tube and folks are using them. I will say most I have watched were on level ground.

 

If, and it's a big if- traction can somehow be maintained then a ZTR would be an effective snow pusher. 

[wh500special 2,359]

Toro/WH offered blades for the 700 and 600-series zero turns. Given how weak they were just lugging around an operator and the tractor itself I’m guessing it turned out being a regrettable decision. 

 

Seems like adding a snow blade would be asking a lot of the transmissions and potentially way beyond their sustained capacity.  By the time you weight it down to gain traction I think you’re inviting Trouble in the front door. 

 

And, yes.  That’s Trouble with a capital T that rhymes with P…

 

Harold Hill

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by wh500special

[sergeant 350]

On 12/6/2025 at 8:19 AM, WHX?? said:

What blows me away is the multitude of OEM's that are making this kind of stuff now. Stihl for example ... their stuff is incredible and they are somewhat newcomers to the z turn market. I forget which brand it is but they have one out that "remembers" your lawn and drives automatically. JD maybe? with technology from their auto combines? All the operator has to do is sit in the seat and drink a beer! Yes and then there is the EV/hybrid crap... mind boggling. 

Then there's Scag, Dixie, Grasshopper, Exmark, Husky ...  list is endless. 

Stihl Zero turns are Made By Ferris & MTD. Ferris version have suspension Non suspension Models are Stanley/MTD Made 

[sergeant 350]

On 12/7/2025 at 2:01 PM, kpinnc said:

 

I can't see how a snow blade would be remotely effective. ZTRs certainly have the torque to push it, but if the blade was angled only one rear wheel would carry the load. No fixed front wheels to hold track...

 

Maybe the ability to spin one wheel faster would add directional stability. Just seems difficult like mowing along a hillside. It can be done but wheel slip is common. 

I have a 2022 Cub Cadet Z-Force SX 54. These have steering wheels  that actually turn the front wheel, i.e., no dummy wheels, and MTD does make a 58-inch front blade for them. I didn't invest in it, but some people have . There is a member on MTF who uses a Cub Cadet Z-Force S-48 strictly for moving snow while he uses a Cub lawn tractor for mowing.  

 

But the thing with the Cub Steering Wheel Zero Turns is they can climb hills that most zero turns will slide down. And tractors like Wheel Horse will not even make it up the hills even with wheel weights and AG tires on. I have 4 hills at my vacation home (18 acres).  Before buying the Cub Zero Turn, I used at minimum a 2004 JD GX335 for mowing, as it had pedal-operated diff/lock. That  was needed to make it up the last 10 to 15 feet on two of the hills.  My WH 416H Old IH cub, Deere 140H3 would not make it to the top of those Two Hills even  With AG tires and wheel weight, HDAP tires, or chains. 

 

But that Cub Z-Force with a steering wheel doesn't have an issue traversing any of the 4 hills I have on that property. My John Deere X748 with hydraulic front-wheel drive makes it up and over those 4 hills just fine.  But I am sick of trailering that back and forth.  And speeding extra hours cutting the grass there when the Cub Z-Force does it in half the time.

 

  Not something I want to spend the money on; I would probably invest in one of these: https://altoz.com/tracked-zero-turn-mowers/trx?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=2010131277&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItJWI4JjPkQMVKbIDAB1S5xIsEAAYAiAAEgLyufD_BwE for those hills, but I think it's too much money for a mower and they also Make Front Blades 

 

Some of the best zero turns for attachment use are Walkers https://www.walker.com/addons#attachments 

Walkers are not cheap, but they can do almost all a garden tractor can do except till or plow the garden.  I considered a Walker B series, but I only have 1 dealer within 35 miles of me.  But they are just a bit expensive for my taste, and there is a lack of close-by dealer support. I could buy the Toro 8000 series, https://www.toro.com/en/product/8000-Series-Direct-Collect-Z#variantTable which is just a Walker mower painted red. But again, they're a bit expensive with the added red paint. 

 

BTW aftermarket Snow Blade for Zero turns https://countryzeroturn.com/snowplow.htm and https://www.nordicplow.com/product-category/snow-plows/zero-turn-mower-plows/]

 

[Handy Don 15,251]

3 hours ago, wh500special said:

Seems like adding a snow blade would be asking a lot of the transmissions and potentially way beyond their sustained capacity.  

The Cub Z-Force, the Altoz, the Toro 800--these are at the highest end of the “commercial grade” models built for intense duty. They were deliberately built to deliver lots of power to the drive train. They do not even remotely compare with consumer-level or even modest landscaper models in construction, capability, or price.

 

To me, this is not unlike WH's decision to field the Eaton 700 as well as the Eaton 1100. The 700 is a perfectly fine unit for grass mowing or snowblowing, but not designed to carry enough power from the engine to the drive wheels to permit snowplowing or dirt busting. As such, it carried a lower price point along with lower expectations. 

 

Also, to @sergeant’s comparison, WH tractors were never sold as able to do ANYTHING or EVERYTHING. They aimed at a segment of the market that appreciated the quite-a-bit that they were capable of doing at a price people were willing to pay. I think few owners of ¼, ½, or 1 acre lawns would pony up to buy a top-of-line Z-turn today.

Edited 1 hour ago by Handy Don