Bad Boy, the Wheel Horse of the Future?

[JoeM 9,129]

After having a couple Bad Boy machines in the shop, I started looking around at their other products. Pretty well built and simple. 

Mostly American made. I really did not know how big this company has grown. I just assumed they were in the TSC stores etc. 

At the end of the vid is a machine that is a hybrid. Runs on battery but has an on board charging engine and generator. 

I suppose the purpose is to allow the battery to be charged if you get near the end of a cycle of mowing and have to finish. Or maybe if you are a lawn care pro the ability to charge the battery when moving between jobs? 

I was just trying to logic the setup. I know now a days some communities like to limit noise, Hency battery mowers? IDK 

 

[WHX?? 53,123]

What blows me away is the multitude of OEM's that are making this kind of stuff now. Stihl for example ... their stuff is incredible and they are somewhat newcomers to the z turn market. I forget which brand it is but they have one out that "remembers" your lawn and drives automatically. JD maybe? with technology from their auto combines? All the operator has to do is sit in the seat and drink a beer! Yes and then there is the EV/hybrid crap... mind boggling. 

Then there's Scag, Dixie, Grasshopper, Exmark, Husky ...  list is endless. 

Edited Saturday at 02:24 PM by WHX??
speeling

[ri702bill 10,453]

44 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

they have one out that "remembers" your lawn and drives automatically. JD maybe

Most likely They have had autonomous GPS guided Combines for about 2 decades now. When I worked at Stoneridge, we made the steering angle sensors to feedback info to the guided steering control. Almost made axle torque sensors to detect axle twist and failure. Way too costly and not field repair friendly. That was a "No-Go".

[Handy Don 15,004]

The “onboard generator” design is for the reasons you mentioned, range extension and “offline” charging, but also for mechanical simplicity and flexibility

Only one drive mechanism (electric).

Battery charge control electronics are already onboard and wired to the batteries so only a power source is needed.

Generator can be positioned where convenient and simply wired in.

Generator always runs at an efficient optimal speed (and only when the operator chooses)

Motor-generator pair can be sized to match desired charging rate or even to provide “burst” power

 

Railroad locomotives have long used the motor-generator system, though without batteries, for the flexibility and control of power delivery as well as for efficiency. Diesel submarines with batteries have too.

[Handy Don 15,004]

6 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Most likely They have had autonomous GPS guided Combines for about 2 decades now. When I worked at Stoneridge, we made the steering angle sensors to feedback info to the guided steering control. Almost made axle torque sensors to detect axle twist and failure. Way too costly and not field repair friendly. That was a "No-Go".

Standard GPS alone doesn’t have sufficient precision to guide a lawn mower (or even a combine!) so they supplement it with a real-time motion-tracking system (often referred to as RTK or real-time kinematics) that tracks actual direction and distance using electro-mechanical sensors on the machine (as @ri702bill noted). 

Similar technology in self-guided home floor cleaners. 

One weakness is that wheel slippage can frustrate them!

Edited Saturday at 03:17 PM by Handy Don

[Racinbob 12,368]

I've been looking at some zero turns. Several things keep me coming back to the Bad Boy R series. I haven't seen another one with a deck that heavy.

All I've seen at TSC are the residential models. Still pretty impressive.

Edited Saturday at 04:01 PM by Racinbob

[Gasaholic 339]

Yeah Id love to see some actual feedback from real users that have a TSC bad boy mower as far as durability and ruggedness... I've been considering getting a new mower in zero turn format but all the usual crap I used to see in my repair shop - Consumer crap from Husqvarna and MTD models all had just too many durability problems - stuff breaks too easy..  So I would want something on a par with ExMark, Hustler, Scag, Bunton and the like - commercial duty but at a consumer level price point - not about to blow 10 grand on a mower , but I could see 3-4 grand on a tough built Pro-Grade Consumer model... Fabricated decks are typically pretty robust but there's other stuff too - frame construction (welds, cracks, etc) steering (HOw many wear points they have - and adjustability/maintenance of same - Ive seen a lot of those that invariably ended up with steering problems after a few years of use with linkages and crap wearing out pinned linkage holes oblong, etc.) 

[ri702bill 10,453]

10 minutes ago, Gasaholic said:

HOw many wear points they have - and adjustability/maintenance of same

I'd look at  a model that has been on the market, design unchanged, for a few years. Long enough to have gained a track record and a reputation - either good or bad... ( look at the long run Ariens had on their 6 HP 24" SnoThros - more than a decade) Hopefully you find a clear cut winner...

[JoeM 9,129]

1 hour ago, Gasaholic said:

TSC bad boy mower as far as durability and ruggedness

The first one I had in was from TSC. The reason it came to me, TSC would not send out a mechanic to repair the machine. That is all I was told.  Both coils went open on the engine, one month old. The guy needed to get it going.

The second one was a dealer machine that belonged to a friend of mine. He wanted it serviced and a plow installed. This machine had almost 300 hours, blades were fair, and the rest looked good considering the guys runs it like he stole it. 

I see the machines are also now sold at Bona Fide mower and lawn tractor dealers. I would definitely go to a dealer just due to the issue with the one machine.

[kpinnc 16,095]

2 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

So I would want something on a par with ExMark, Hustler, Scag, Bunton and the like - commercial duty but at a consumer level price point - not about to blow 10 grand on a mower

 

You can also look at Bad Boys number one rival- Spartan. They have some interesting machines. 

 

Most of the ZTRs on the market have fabricated decks. As someone who has and loves his zero turn, let me make some suggestions:

 

1. Transmissions- the most important (and expensive) part of the functionality to the machine. The best are true pump and seperate motor designs. Most have moved to much cheaper combined (Hydrogear) setups, so do your homework and pick a good one. Parker hydraulics makes the best of the combined systems, literally just sticking a pump and motor together with a manifold. Kubota makes thier own transmission too but it seems to be decent. 

 

2. Engine choice- somewhat self explanatory. Sad to say, but stay away from Kohler. Nothing they make now is what it used to be. This is one place you also have to do your homework. Vanguard and Kawasaki are better here in most cases. 

 

3. Hardware- things like deck spindles and caster/ wheel bearings. Spindles and pullies are everywhere on a zero turn. This is also a common shortcut used by manufacturers. Deck spindles are expensive and a common failure point. Make sure yours are rugged. The better machines use conical, serviceable wheel bearings. Watch out for pot metal sealed bearing junk. 

 

4. Bells and whistles- there are always new gimmicks to add to the price point. A comfortable seat and a soft start clutch controller are great. Some have good shock absorption systems. Much more than that is just fluff. Act accordingly. 

 

There are other things to consider but that will get you started. Zero turns are complex machines compared to Wheel Horses and much more powerful. 30+hp engines are common. My Scag weighs nearly 1000 pounds. There are cheaper homeowners models and there are true commercial grade machines with everything in between. What you find at a big box store (even TSC) are cheap light duty compared to the heavy duty machines. 

 

I had to buy used to get my Scag. Like you said, I'm in no position to purchase a $20k lawn mower. While I couldn't afford a new commercial machine, I also couldn't justify $8k on store bought junk. You have more options nowadays. 

 

 

[Racinbob 12,368]

My head was pretty much spinning looking at all the options. As kp mentioned, the transmission differences. Ya want better, ya gotta pay. Again, I just keep migrating to the Bad Boys. I haven't seen any other mower with a 3 gauge deck which obviously contributes to the 1600-1700# weight, the transmissions are indeed Parkers on the upper end but there's a ton of different Parkers, things that can be visually checked seem as heavy as the next. Justify the big $$? Don't know yet. I've got a lot of pondering to do, mainly on the various transmissions. 

As far as battery goes. It just wouldn't work for me so I haven't researched them. But it could be great for some folks. 

[JoeM 9,129]

20 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

not about to blow 10 grand on a mower

Yep, just what I said in the 80's when I looked at new Wheel Horses.

Bought a used 75 in 87 for 1/3 of the money. And ran it for years. 

 

Then I waited 20 some odd years so I could have me one, or two or three.....well you get the picture.

[WHX?? 53,123]

19 hours ago, JoeM said:

a plow installed.

You sayin Joe a guy can plow with them??? Guessing you mean a front blade ... don't even wanna see The Pullstart dropping his Scag in a furrow! Let's not give him ideas shall we?!?!?

21 hours ago, Gasaholic said:

not about to blow 10 grand on a mower , but I could see 3-4 grand

Don't have to spend even close to that Gas.

. A few years ago when my dad passed he left me a green & yellow  ...  gulp ... lower end zt. 

Now what was I gonna do with that I got a 520 with a 48 and and more 60's horses with decks than a man has right to own and not a whole lot of grass to mow. Most of the time she does it with her 38-14 HLX vertical.

 

Figured I was gonna sell it and buy more  since it wasn't exactly a family heirloom. 

 

Turned out it was only 2800 brand new and be lucky I get 2 for it. It was like new too. Used it a couple of times and kinda got hooked on it so kept it and use it quite abit now for those quick mows. Glad I did since I keep it at the plow field for mowing three acres of lush grass & since the elderly owner couldn't to do it anymore. 

It does scalp a bit if yer giving it. The anti scalp rollers need to be casters.

Fairly stout machine for a low end JD & the money but need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to operate it with all the safeties. 

 

Since I got no money I cut that grass for free... 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by WHX??

[JoeM 9,129]

58 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Guessing you mean a front blade ... don't even wanna see The Pullstart dropping his Scag in a furrow! Let's not give him ideas shall we?!?!?

Oh my that PS thing is funny.

 

Here is the project. One pin and two clips, there is room for tire chains but IDK. 

I added the snow plow and Geezer Bar. The bar is for helping the dude to get on and off cause he ain't to steady. 

I cut a little grass with it while it was here, it is fast but just don't like it. Also it was not good on the slopes. 

[kpinnc 16,095]

4 hours ago, JoeM said:

cut a little grass with it while it was here, it is fast but just don't like it. Also it was not good on the slopes. 

 

I can't see how a snow blade would be remotely effective. ZTRs certainly have the torque to push it, but if the blade was angled only one rear wheel would carry the load. No fixed front wheels to hold track...

 

Maybe the ability to spin one wheel faster would add directional stability. Just seems difficult like mowing along a hillside. It can be done but wheel slip is common. 

[JoeM 9,129]

3 hours ago, kpinnc said:

how a snow blade would be remotely effective

I know, defies logic, but I went on you tube and folks are using them. I will say most I have watched were on level ground.