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thekevin

69 Raider 12 doesn't have spark, need some guidance

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thekevin

I drug this thing home yesterday.  Not sure how long it had been sitting, but it's been a while.  The key ignition was removed and several wires had been removed.  I put a new solenoid it and all new wiring for the starter.  I ran a jumper wire to the coil for testing but no spark.  I pulled the trigger out and cleaned it and put it back in.  The motor is a K301 S 47147C.

 

Here are the questions. 

Does it require the stator to run?  the wires coming out of the stator are pretty much destroyed and not hooked in to anything.

Should I have to get 12v power to anything other than the coil for it to spark.

 

What should be my next course of action.  I am thinking I need to pull the flywheel off and see how bad the stator is.  I am not opposed to upgrading or converting the ignition on this to something better if that's what I need to do.  I don't want to waste any money trying to fix what's there if I am going to do that though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

raider1.jpg

raider2.jpg

raider3.jpg

Edited by thekevin
fixed pics

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gwest_ca

Welcome to Red Square

 

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953 nut
8 hours ago, thekevin said:

I ran a jumper wire to the coil for testing but no spark.

:WRS:

The ignition system that your Wheel Horse had when it left the factory was a Breaker-less Triggered system as pictured below. Is that what you have?

image.jpeg

Presuming you have this type ignition, did you run a wire from the battery to the coil? If you did the likelihood is that it is no longer functional.

There is a thread on this site covering the conversion of this system to a battery powered ignition system. 

 

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markseven

No one is going to agree with me but if it was mine I would convert it to points system. 

I just did this to one of mine.

I had almost all the parts .

Coil  and condenser 

Points and points push rod

Ignition switch 3 position 5 terminal 

 

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953 nut
24 minutes ago, markseven said:

No one is going to agree with me

I agree, that is why I posted the link to how it is done.    Breaker-less ignition systems are great until they aren't. Once they aren't they are history.

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pfrederi

I have fixed a couple breakerless systems but the one on my GT-14 refused to work so I converted to Battery points.  

I couldn't see any of your pictures.  There are tests in the Kohler manual to see if it is the coil or the trigger that has failed. I have a good coil that you can have if that is what failed.  Triggers are really hard to come by,.

Edited by pfrederi
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Handy Don
11 hours ago, thekevin said:

Here are the questions. 

The pictures you posted from your iPhone are in HEIC; this format isn’t supported by the forum software. Google “convert HEIC to JPEG” for info on making them visible here.

And a “thank you” when asking for assistance wouldn’t go amiss. 

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thekevin

Ok, I fixed the pics.  It is the breakerless system.  I just jumped 12v to the wire running back to the coil and verified that it does have 12v at the plug on the coil.  I will test the coil with a meter today and see if it tests good or not.  Last night I was watching some videos about converting it to points and that seems like the right move.  I poured a little bit of marvel in the cylinder to let it sit while I was running the new wires for the starter and solenoid and after 30 minutes did a compression test and it was only 50psi.  

 

My goal when I bought this was to use it as a mower but I am little worried about the compression.  So far nothing on it has been seized up except the screws that held the fan screen on.  The transaxle was completely full of water but everything on it seems to move really smooth.  I am going to run a bore scope down in it this evening to make sure but I think its fine.

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pfrederi

If you did jump 12v from battery to coil you may have cooked the ignition system..sorry.  The breakerless system is like a magneto ignition it generates its own electricity for spark  does not need a battery to run,  

 

The test for the coil is easy...the trigger test requires  a D cell battery and flashlight bulb 

Edited by pfrederi

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thekevin

That makes my decision easy then, I am going to order a points setup for it today.

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thekevin

I just ordered all new Kohler points, condenser, coil, points cover, pushrod, grommet and everything I think I will need to do the swap.  I also want to order a new stator and regulator for it so that I can have 100% new wiring and electronics in this thing but I am not sure which one to order.  Any help on that.  Does it make a difference that I am changing over to a points setup for that?

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953 nut
5 hours ago, thekevin said:

I poured a little bit of marvel in the cylinder to let it sit while I was running the new wires for the starter and solenoid and after 30 minutes did a compression test and it was only 50psi. 

Your engine has a compression release cam shaft which bumps the exhaust valve open momentarily at cranking speed to allow for easier cranking. Once the engine goes above 50 to 100 RPMs the system allows the valve to remain closed. %) PSI is a fairly good reading.

1 hour ago, thekevin said:

new stator and regulator for it so that I can have 100% new wiring and electronics in this thing but I am not sure which one to order.  Any help on that.  Does it make a difference that I am changing over to a points setup for that?

The charging system won't know the difference.

You will want to change the ignition switch to a 103990 and the generic diagram below could be helpful.

5b202f3dea878_batteryignitiontractor-wiring.jpg.a45b0505e2c823cc5019a77d8143fd27.jpg

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thekevin

Heck yeah, that is a diagram I can follow.  

 

I have now spent as much on electronics and new fueling setup as I spent on the mower itself.

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wallfish
38 minutes ago, thekevin said:

Heck yeah, that is a diagram I can follow.  

 

I have now spent as much on electronics and new fueling setup as I spent on the mower itself.

When you get'er fired up and running you will realize it was money well spent. Your grand children will also enjoy that tractor another 40 years from now!

:WRS:

 

14 hours ago, markseven said:

No one is going to agree with me but if it was mine I would convert it to points system. 

Not really sure why you would think that but...

No fire and that thing is getting converted to points and a real coil

If it works then run it until it don't  :twocents-02cents: 

 

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953 nut
10 hours ago, thekevin said:

Heck yeah, that is a diagram I can follow.  

 

I have now spent as much on electronics and new fueling setup as I spent on the mower itself.    Welcome to the hobby,   nobody said you would make any money fixin' up old :wh:

 

9 hours ago, wallfish said:

Your grand children will also enjoy that tractor another 40 years from now

And they will be among the few people left on the face of the earth that are knowledgeable about points and condensers.             :scared-shocked:

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