K181 governor issue

[Cjwv1975 117]

So after a wk of not touching the 854 and after ultrasonic cleaning carb and fuel pump. I believe I finally got it running.  Need to play with throttle cable some to try and give me more adjustability.

[Cjwv1975 117]

After a few hrs and many adjustments I think those weights on my governor gear are stuck. I got a borescope down there and they only move slightly with a pick I was able to put in thru governor shaft hole. Plus anytime theres a load on the engine I have to add throttle to keep rpms up. Ive adjusted everything multiple times per manual and made sure governor shaft wasnt moving after I tighten it down. I even checked for a head gasket leak. All the internals are there as I can see them on scope.  Any thoughts?  I am going to keep running it hoping it frees up. 

[ebinmaine 73,715]

13 hours ago, Cjwv1975 said:

anytime theres a load on the engine I have to add throttle to keep rpms up

 

What RPM are you using as a cruising set?

What kinda "load" ? Driving uphill or an implement?

Any driven implements except a sickle should be at 3600 already which the full pull of a correctly adjusted cable. 

[wallfish 18,466]

14 hours ago, Cjwv1975 said:

I think those weights on my governor gear are stuck. I got a borescope down there and they only move slightly with a pick I was able to put in thru governor shaft hole

 

They don't move very much. These weights in the pic are at the max but the shaft tab would prevent them from going to that full max if everything is connected, set up, adjusted and operating properly. The pin is always pushing on the shaft tab whenever the engine is running.

 

[Cjwv1975 117]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

What RPM are you using as a cruising set?

What kinda "load" ? Driving uphill or an implement?

Any driven implements except a sickle should be at 3600 already which the full pull of a correctly adjusted cable. 

Around 3000rpm with no implements on and rpms drop fairly significantly. I done have to add throttle to any of my other WHs. 

[Cjwv1975 117]

44 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 

They don't move very much. These weights in the pic are at the max but the shaft tab would prevent them from going to that full max if everything is connected, set up, adjusted and operating properly. The pin is always pushing on the shaft tab whenever the engine is running.

 

I can move the tab out of the way looking with borescope and I would think I should see more movement than am seeing. When I move governor linkage on my others I get very noticeable push back. On this one theres very little push back. 

[wallfish 18,466]

10 hours ago, Cjwv1975 said:

When I move governor linkage on my others I get very noticeable push back. On this one theres very little push back. 

Yeah, you should definitely notice it pushing back to try and close the carb. Try and work those weights free.

Never saw that problem before

[Cjwv1975 117]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

Yeah, you should definitely notice it pushing back to try and close the carb. Try and work those weights free.

Never saw that problem before

Its a metal governor gear.  Gears itself is good, both weights are there and push rob is there. Ive adjusted governor a few times and have done it before on other WHs I owe so only thing I can think of

[pfrederi 18,812]

12 hours ago, Cjwv1975 said:

Its a metal governor gear.  Gears itself is good, both weights are there and push rob is there. Ive adjusted governor a few times and have done it before on other WHs I owe so only thing I can think of

 Never saw a metal governor gear.  The borescope picture you posted it looked yellow (meaning plastic) to me 

[Gasaholic 316]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

 Never saw a metal governor gear.  The borescope picture you posted it looked yellow (meaning plastic) to me 

Yep they're metal in older models. (cast steel or cast iron just like the camshaft - they could get noisy..)  My first reaction earlier was where he said 

Quote

with a pick I was able to put in thru governor shaft hole.

I assume he is removing the brass governor shaft bushing to access it, and I'd wonder if he might have at some point lost the steel spacer that keeps governor shaft from coming too far out of place (and if it was there and shaft flag hung up on the flyweights or spool, the bushing would not thread in fully anyways - so if it was missing it's possible for governor shaft and flag to not be properly centered over the spool which would severely impair the governor's capabilities....  Just a thought....   also there's often a hardened steel thrust washer that goes between the block and governor gear over the stub shaft and if that was missing, could have wear in either the block or governor gear... lots of little details that could easily be causing governor issues if unaware of them... (as well as slightly bent governor shaft binding in the bushing nut) 

[peter lena 9,358]

@Cjwv1975  often refer to , running in an unknown engine , on a seperate gallon of heavily  treated fresh gas, also like the way you are  exploring  every venue , functional detailing  is a key stage , for  gain / loss, might also add , that  since going over to  STA BIL in all my fuel , has eliminated  fuel hose related break down , filter at gas tank and filter before carb , zero debris in fuel flow . sending you some good ju ju , pete

[Cjwv1975 117]

Finally decided to pull that welch plug near governor. Weights and pin where stuck. Sprayed it down with some Kroil and bingo its working as it should. No more adding throttle to make it up a hill, you can feel the governor working though linkage and throttle response is much better. 

I just need to wait for my new welch plug and fine tune it. Appreciate everyones input on this.

[wallfish 18,466]

2 hours ago, Cjwv1975 said:

Finally decided to pull that welch plug near governor. Weights and pin where stuck. Sprayed it down with some Kroil and bingo its working as it should. No more adding throttle to make it up a hill, you can feel the governor working though linkage and throttle response is much better. 

I just need to wait for my new welch plug and fine tune it. Appreciate everyones input on this.

Nice persistence and determination to solve that

[Cjwv1975 117]

3 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Nice persistence and determination to solve that

Thanks. Glad I purchased a cheap borescope. Saved me from tearing into an engine that didnt need it. 

[WHGuy413 2,796]

Lurking in the shadows following this post since I have one here that does the same thing. I haven’t touched it in a few years but now that I have an idea of what to look at I may tackle it. Thanks for asking this question and for all the answers from everyone along the way.

[Cjwv1975 117]

4 minutes ago, WHGuy413 said:

Lurking in the shadows following this post since I have one here that does the same thing. I haven’t touched it in a few years but now that I have an idea of what to look at I may tackle it. Thanks for asking this question and for all the answers from everyone along the way.

This engine really had me thinking. I knew it was a governor issue but wasnt sure where in governor system its was. Ive adjusted kohler governor's before so I felt pretty good about doing it but something was off one this one. I picked up a cheap borescope on Amazon and was able to see into engine and thats when I was sure it was the weights. I really didnt want to tear apart a good running engine, so I felt pretty good about pulling that welch plug to get to governor gear. 

Work through the whole system and take everyones advice here.  

[WHGuy413 2,796]

3 minutes ago, Cjwv1975 said:

This engine really had me thinking. I knew it was a governor issue but wasnt sure where in governor system its was. Ive adjusted kohler governor's before so I felt pretty good about doing it but something was off one this one. I picked up a cheap borescope on Amazon and was able to see into engine and thats when I was sure it was the weights. I really didnt want to tear apart a good running engine, so I felt pretty good about pulling that welch plug to get to governor gear. 

Work through the whole system and take everyones advice here.  

I’ve adjusted the governor before with the help from my friend who has done them before I will probably start over again. Engine runs great. Lacks power going up hills and the slightest movement of the throttle from idle and it’s screaming full throttle. I haven’t touched it only because I have other tractors i can use. But maybe I will try to tackle it.