I Just Don't Understand

[wh500special 2,277]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Strange when E-10 and E-15 were first mandated it was and continues to be advertised as NO LEAD.    Was this fake advertising designed to make us all think  non ethanol gasoline contained lead and to promote the phony ethanol movement.    When in fact, lead in all gasoline was banned in 1996.    

 

I’m not sure the Ethanol movement was phony…seems like they (politicians of both stripes) were pretty successful getting it adopted! 😏

I think you meant this tongue-in-cheek, but I think it’s always been called Unleaded or Regular Unleaded Gasoline (RUG) and continues to be just as a matter of convention.  Carryover from the days of leaded gas. 

 

no fake news there. 

 

We’ve had ethanol containing gas since the 1990’s here in the my part of the Midwest.  That’s probably all that ever went into our car, Wheel Horse, boats, etc. 

 

the pumps were always posted “may contain alcohol” so sometimes - especially seasonally - it might have just been straight gas, but it stands to reason it had alcohol most of the time since it’s cheaper and increase octane efficiently. 

 

 For a time it was actually cheaper to buy 89 octane E10 than 87 RUG w/o ethanol so that’s what we sought out when ethanol 87 wasn’t available.   I remember well fueling our 1983 F150 with Casey’s 89 octane for 89 cents when I was in high school in the early 1990’s. 
 

The Eastern part of the US was a later adopter of alcohol as a fuel additive. MTBE used to be more prevalent out your way.  It has a longer list of environmental problems and persistence than does ethanol so it’s fallen from favor.  So ethanol in gasoline is and feels “newer” outside the Midwest. 

 

Steve

[Ed Kennell 42,170]

 

This is the fake advertising that I refer to.      The nonethanol grades are also unleaded.

[Handy Don 14,129]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

This is the fake advertising that I refer to.      The nonethanol grades are also unleaded.

Ahyup. And since when has the general public bothered to figure our and call out branding and advertising hype (and misinformation)?!

 

My pet peeve is that I cannot “self blend” five gallons of “regular” with six gallons of “supreme” to get ~91 octane at my local station. I have to restart the pump and it won’t accept the credit card for a second consecutive purchase. Same when I want to fill my car and my tractor/splitter/blower gas cans. Sigh. 

[Ed Kennell 42,170]

22 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

My pet peeve

Being a boat owner, this is one of mine.    Many boats were destroyed by fire when the ethanol dissolved the resin in the fiberglass fuel tank causing a fuel leak that filled the bilge.   When the fuel level reached the float and energized the bilge pump....

[wh500special 2,277]

It seems more likely that calling it Unleaded is a carryover and better marketing than calling it “regular”.  I remember when there was both regular and regular unleaded. 
 

I don’t think this labeling is nefarious or conspiratorial.  

steve

[Ed Kennell 42,170]

Sorry Steve, I find it disturbing that no mention of lead in fuel advertisement was made for many years after it was banned in all road use fuel.  Then when the E fuel was mandated, it alone  was and still is the only fuel advertised as lead free.  To me, this is a ploy to trick the unaware public that E fuel was the only safe fuel to use.     

[wh500special 2,277]

Fair enough.  I can certainly understand that appraisal!

 

steve

[Beap52 1,481]

Is the reason  ethanol gasoline is cheaper  due to government subsiding the alcohol? or is it because gasoline pulled from the earth  more expensive?  

 

Does ethanol fuel pollute less  than pure gas? 

 

When one accounts for the use of farm land, the costs of planting, fertilizer and processing of the corn, is ethanol the best option?

 

A few years ago, I was surprised at the number solar investors who were interested in our family farm.  Our location is great for hooking into the grid.  In the past year this has dropped to zero. It seems the elected and possibly unelected officials have a great deal of influences with what energy sources we consume. 

[lynnmor 7,858]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Ahyup. And since when has the general public bothered to figure our and call out branding and advertising hype (and misinformation)?!

 

My pet peeve is that I cannot “self blend” five gallons of “regular” with six gallons of “supreme” to get ~91 octane at my local station. I have to restart the pump and it won’t accept the credit card for a second consecutive purchase. Same when I want to fill my car and my tractor/splitter/blower gas cans. Sigh. 

If you have mid grade available it is simply a 50-50 mix, they only have two tanks in the ground.  I had issues with credit cards not allowing a second fill, a call to the CC company fixed the problem and I haven't been cut off in years.

 

The whole subject of ethanol is simply political with the corn lobby firmly in control and the great unwashed can just suck it up.  The nonsense of using obsolete words like unleaded is to keep the decades old scam going.

[lynnmor 7,858]

4 minutes ago, Beap52 said:

When one accounts for the use of farm land, the costs of planting, fertilizer and processing of the corn, is ethanol the best option?

 

Where are the ethanol powered tractors and farm trucks?  Where are the ethanol fired distilleries? Where are the ethanol fueled tank trucks?  Where are the ethanol fueled locomotives to transport the ethanol?  And on and on.

 

There is a net loss of fuel when all things are considered.  Again, it ain't about common sense, it is all about politics.

[8ntruck 7,877]

Let's not forget the approximate 30% lower energy per gallon of ethanol when compared to gasoline.

 

To go the same distance or do the same amount of work, more ethanol must be burned.

 

Ethanol has a higher octaine rating than gas, so there advantages for its use as a performance fuel where mpg is of lower importance.

[lynnmor 7,858]

1 hour ago, 8ntruck said:

Let's not forget the approximate 30% lower energy per gallon of ethanol when compared to gasoline.

 

To go the same distance or do the same amount of work, more ethanol must be burned.

 

Ethanol has a higher octaine rating than gas, so there advantages for its use as a performance fuel where mpg is of lower importance.

True that.

 

Of course the higher octane will gain you nothing unless you have a very high compression ratio.  Unless you are involved in racing there is nothing in this nonsense to benefit you.

 

One other thing that is known by few is that the gubbermint gets a lot more tax money since the tax per gallon is the same despite the fact that more gallons are needed to do the same work.

[wallfish 18,242]

5 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

the gubbermint gets a lot more tax money since the tax per gallon is the same despite the fact that more gallons are needed to do the same work

As my grandfather said "If there's a buck to made then it's guaranteed somebody is doing it"

[lynnmor 7,858]

4 minutes ago, wallfish said:

As my grandfather said "If there's a buck to made then it's guaranteed somebody is doing it"

I would hope that your grandfather was opposed to theft of money by deception, which is what charging more for less.

[wallfish 18,242]

46 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

One other thing that is known by few

Didn't really think I'd need to explain it, but yes he was opposed to theft by deception.

[Tractorhead 9,212]

On 8/5/2025 at 6:43 AM, 8ntruck said:

I drove through town after walking the dog and saw that no lead was $2.86 at the gas station.  That was about 1pm.

 

When I went back into town about 5pm, no lead at that same gas station is now $3.39!

 

That is a 53 cent increase or 18% increase that happened in 4 hours.

 

I just don't  understand!

 

Edit

Folks - i'm venting here.  Please don't take this thread into politics.  The lack of politics in Red Square one of the things I really enjoy.

 

Here we have such price jumps in about 2h rhytms.

prices jumps up and down for up to 50cent!

The most of the time they go up, even when the Oilprice falls.

the prices shall be in direct contact to the oilprice, but when oilprices drops and holiday‘s are starting

you can bet for your Head Fuelprises will raising - at least at 50 cents for that periode.

 

 

profit taking - or better profit maximizing is the „neweconomic“ Word for that practice.

that is nothing political, that can be sattled in a simple Word - greed.

 

Edit:

Here the prices jumps in 8-30 cent jumps but here we talking about a Liter.

compared to a gallone what is about 3,5 Litres

 

Edited August 8 by Tractorhead

[Handy Don 14,129]

13 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Of course the higher octane will gain you nothing unless you have a very high compression ratio.

Absolutely. Like many other newer cars, the engine control in mine alters the compression ratio by controlling the turbo- and super-chargers based on “knock” sensors. It can coax 295 hp out of a 1.95 liter engine. My “seat of the pants-o-meter” detects this when on highway merges, passing on two-lanes, or at highway speeds above 65mph. 

 

14 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Let's not forget the approximate 30% lower energy per gallon of ethanol when compared to gasoline.

Yes, but this is a gallon of ethanol vs. a gallon of gasoline.  E10 blend, being only 10% ethanol would have only 3% fewer BTU. I think of it a 29mpg vs. 30mpg. 

 

So there is a tradeoff, right?

On one side, there is higher octane, support for corn farming and ethanol refining corporations, extra tax contributions to the government, and somewhat reduced hydrocarbon emissions.

On the other side, there is a reduction in energy capacity and damage to older fuel systems not “alcohol hardened” (or the cost of hardening them). 

Edited August 8 by Handy Don

[lynnmor 7,858]

29 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

So there is a tradeoff, right?

On one side, there is higher octane, support for corn farming and ethanol refining corporations, extra tax contributions to the government, and somewhat reduced hydrocarbon emissions.

On the other side, there is a reduction in energy capacity and damage to older fuel systems not “alcohol hardened” (or the cost of hardening them). 

 

You listed seven things, I see only one as a positive and another as a maybe.  

[Handy Don 14,129]

2 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

You listed seven things, I see only one as a positive and another as a maybe.  

Yep. I shoulda enclosed a picture of my tongue firmly in my cheek. 

[Lee1977 7,224]

I maybe older then most but I remember the old hand pumps where you pumped the gas up in th the glass container at the top of the pump. I also remember when the state came around checking octane at service stations.

I do know you get more mileage out Ethanol Free gas no matter what you car was designed for, can't say you save any money as you still pay extra for the Ethanol even when you don't get it. 

[Ed Kennell 42,170]

1 hour ago, Lee1977 said:

I maybe older then most

I thought I was old.  I pumped a lot of "Good Gulf" gas in the 50s, but never used those old hand pumps.

[SylvanLakeWH 28,589]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

I thought I was old.  I pumped a lot of "Good Gulf" gas in the 50s, but never used those old hand pumps.

First time I went to Alaska (1982) I stopped for gas in Chicken, just west of Yukon border on the Top of the World Highway... filled up with one of the old gravity pumps...

 

Thanks for the memories...