Lee1977 7,356 #26 Posted August 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, jsoluna said: That's going to be a smooth runner. The Vanguards are a well balanced engine, especially the small bore variants. They are real tight in a C-series. Edited August 11 by Lee1977 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #27 Posted August 11 (edited) 20 hours ago, jsoluna said: . Excited for the mockup of the engine soon. All the calcs and measurements check out, physical placement is the next step. I like this diagram in particular. It shows me a way to measure my own. @jsoluna is it ok if I post this in my own thread? Edited August 11 by ebinmaine 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #28 Posted August 12 (edited) 4 hours ago, ebinmaine said: I like this diagram in particular. It shows me a way to measure my own. @jsoluna is it ok if I post this in my own thread? Absolutely. Some measurements are easier to the OD of the crank, others are easier to the centerline. That was just a rough sketch, so the physical references are pretty sloppy. I plan on redrawing it. Edited August 12 by jsoluna 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #29 Posted August 12 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lee1977 said: They are real tight in a C-series. You ain't kidding! Vanguard red looks good in there though. Doubt you'd fit a Command twin in there without modifications. Shrouding and form factor in general are bulkier. Edited August 12 by jsoluna 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee1977 7,356 #30 Posted August 12 (edited) 18 hours ago, jsoluna said: That's going to be a smooth runner. The Vanguards are a well balanced engine, especially the small bore variants. They are real tight in a C-series. The crank shaft center location on a 8 speed is the back side of the PTO loop hole bolted to the frame. I raised the engine 3/4", here is the base plate on the 312-8.; Edited August 12 by Lee1977 2 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #31 Posted August 12 4 hours ago, Lee1977 said: base plate I need to look at my Tecumseh plate. I'm hoping to use that. Not sure what it has for a rise height. 6 hours ago, jsoluna said: Absolutely. Some measurements are easier to the OD of the crank, others are easier to the centerline. That was just a rough sketch, so the physical references are pretty sloppy. I plan on redrawing it. Excellent. Thank you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #32 Posted September 1 (edited) Alright everyone, finally had some time on the Raider this weekend! Swapping out the HH100 for the CH13 is pretty straightforward with a couple caveats. It's not complete yet, still have exhaust, fuel, controls, and wiring to do but the major questions and puzzles are solved. The goal with this swap, as mentioned, was to keep the unit as close to factory condition as possible, meaning no sheetmetal or frame changes, no custom belt requirements, fuel system requirements, etc. If you are thinking of doing the swap, here is some data (further supporting documentation and data will follow). Factory WH crankshaft centerline distance from top of the frame/base of the engine is 6.125". The CH13 crankshaft centerline is .750" higher than the Tecumseh, so the original engine mounting plate will either need modified to lower the engine, or you will need to make a custom plate (which I have opted for, more details to come). The standard CH13 crankshaft diameter is 1.000" vs the HH100 1.125". I opted to solve with with a crankshaft sleeve adapter which has worked well (more details to come). The CH13 crankshaft is also .250 shorter (this is something I was able to work around with no adverse affects). Once the engine crankshaft mounting height is brought back to the factory 6.125" and the engine fore-aft position and crankshaft extension length is solved (basically putting the drive belt and PTO belt pulleys in the correct orientation), everything clears by a very small margin. The tightest clearance is between the battery tray and the starter solenoid. It does not actually touch, but is very close. The drive belt guide will even mount perfectly with a washer between it and the engine. The CH13 has the same SAE mourning flange circle as the HH1000 for the PTO stop/belt guide! Plenty of room for oil filter and oil changing, air filter service. Plenty of room for side-exhaust and muffler. Will follow up with further details and post back with video updates on our channel. It's gonna work and looks like it was meant to be there, to be honest! Edited September 1 by jsoluna 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #33 Posted September 1 (edited) Starter solenoid clears by a very narrow margin. The engine has actually shifted back slighty in this picture, so there is more clearance than that. Once the engine is in place, the drive belt guide will fit perfect and even mount up to the standard SAE hole location on the CH13. Edited September 1 by jsoluna 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #34 Posted September 1 @jsoluna Excellent work! 2 hours ago, jsoluna said: The standard CH13 crankshaft diameter is 1.000" vs the HH100 1.125". I opted to solve with with a crankshaft sleeve adapter which has worked well (more details to come). If this comes back to haunt you in any way you can get a pulley from a Kohler 8 HP. Thats what I'll be using on my Tecumseh OHV160 to Briggs Vanguard swap. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #35 Posted September 1 4 hours ago, ebinmaine said: @jsoluna Excellent work! If this comes back to haunt you in any way you can get a pulley from a Kohler 8 HP. Thats what I'll be using on my Tecumseh OHV160 to Briggs Vanguard swap. Thank you! Fingers crossed. First time I've used one. Fitment was quite good, to be be honest. I was surprised. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #36 Posted September 3 Anyone have a lead on a dash panel cover plate? Previous owner mangled this one trying to install a non OEM PTO switch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #37 Posted September 3 1 hour ago, jsoluna said: Anyone have a lead on a dash panel cover plate? Previous owner mangled this one trying to install a non OEM PTO switch. I don't think we have any early ones like that but I'll look. For any Wanted items please do feel free to place an ad in the Redsquare Classifieds. On my 1975 Cinnamon Horse C160-8 I had Trina paint the metal base instead of replacing the plastic. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #38 Posted September 3 54 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: I don't think we have any early ones like that but I'll look. For any Wanted items please do feel free to place an ad in the Redsquare Classifieds. On my 1975 Cinnamon Horse C160-8 I had Trina paint the metal base instead of replacing the plastic. May paint and have my wife help with some vinyl scripts. We be cool to see how close she can get the font to the original. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #39 Posted September 4 17 minutes ago, jsoluna said: May paint and have my wife help with some vinyl scripts. We be cool to see how close she can get the font to the original. I used decals. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjg854 12,440 #40 Posted September 4 13 hours ago, jsoluna said: May paint and have my wife help with some vinyl scripts. We be cool to see how close she can get the font to the original. Redo your horse could be your answer for a decal 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #41 Posted September 4 5 minutes ago, rjg854 said: Redo your horse could be your answer for a decal Definitely. We've used several. Excellent. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 29,168 #42 Posted September 4 (edited) 16 hours ago, jsoluna said: Anyone have a lead on a dash panel cover plate? Previous owner mangled this one trying to install a non OEM PTO switch. Is this one that Wheelhorse 3d makes? He's a vendor on here... @Wheel Horse 3D https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/185-wheel-horse-3d-by-greystone/ Edited September 4 by SylvanLakeWH 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #43 Posted September 4 9 hours ago, rjg854 said: Redo your horse could be your answer for a decal Check it out https://www.redoyourhorse.com/1970-1972/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainelyWheelhorse 1,941 #44 Posted September 8 On 9/3/2025 at 5:41 PM, jsoluna said: Anyone have a lead on a dash panel cover plate? Previous owner mangled this one trying to install a non OEM PTO switch. I just made my own out of aluminum. It was a bit of a PITA cutting, bending and fitting but it turned out great. 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #45 Posted September 9 Looks great! I think I've decided to toss the plastic panel and work with the steel plate, modify it to fit a low oil pressure indicator for the CH13, and possibly make accommodations for an hour meter and voltmeter. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #46 Posted September 9 Just now, jsoluna said: make accommodations for an hour meter and voltmeter. On a slightly later model such as my C160s those gauges would be lower down in the vertical or horizontal transmission cover or steering tower area. What are you using for a voltage regulator and where is it going to be located? I ask because the stock ones were in a place behind the steering tower and some say they were known for getting dirty and hot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #47 Posted September 9 I want to keep the unit as close to factory configuration as possible, but having eyes on the hours, oil, and volts are pretty important for a daily driver in my opinion so I'm good with some slight mods there. The voltage regulator will be removed, as the CH13 has its own regulator mounted on the engine shroud. If i can get away without chopping into the dash tower sheet metal for gauges, that would be preferred. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #48 Posted September 9 4 minutes ago, jsoluna said: I want to keep the unit as close to factory configuration as possible, but having eyes on the hours, oil, and volts are pretty important for a daily driver in my opinion so I'm good with some slight mods there. The voltage regulator will be removed, as the CH13 has its own regulator mounted on the engine shroud. If i can get away without chopping into the dash tower sheet metal for gauges, that would be preferred. Depending on what you're going to be using for gauges the lower areas would be sort of factory-ish. I've seen both hour meters and voltmeters in a section of the transmission shifter cover. I can take pictures later today if it would help you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsoluna 149 #49 Posted September 9 2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: Depending on what you're going to be using for gauges the lower areas would be sort of factory-ish. I've seen both hour meters and voltmeters in a section of the transmission shifter cover. I can take pictures later today if it would help you. That would be great, thanks. I've seen the gauge layouts on the 300/400/500 Series we have had in the shop here. Would be good to see an older unit for comparison as well. I'll be doing away with the cig lighter / 12V outlet as well as the light switch on the dash panel (new keyswitch will have lights/aux circuit built in), so that frees up quite a bit of space. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 74,176 #50 Posted September 9 7 hours ago, jsoluna said: That would be great, thanks. I've seen the gauge layouts on the 300/400/500 Series we have had in the shop here. Would be good to see an older unit for comparison as well. I'll be doing away with the cig lighter / 12V outlet as well as the light switch on the dash panel (new keyswitch will have lights/aux circuit built in), so that frees up quite a bit of space. Here's two 1974 C160-8 tractors. One is the Cinnamon Horse. I made sure to show you the stock dash panel as we repainted it. The "Wheel Horse" script was from @Vinylguy Terry. The other is a Tecumseh engine tractor which will soon have a Briggs Vanguard. Cinnamon has only one guage. I swapped the OE ammeter for an aftermarket volt meter. The Tecumsehorse has two spaces. Upper one is the OE ammeter. The lower one in the shift cover was an hour meter. I have a 2" rubber plug but never popped it in. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
