417-8

[AHS 1,546]

Ok, this 417-8 (KT17 series 2) is brand new to me. I changed starters to a brand new starter from DB electrical and i changed points… it runs awesome!! Yesterday and today i had this happen… once i shut it off it wont start again till its cooled off completely. Once i turn the key when it’s warm, it will turn over once (like the battery is dead).  5 y/o Old battery and it held a charge. (I doubt if it is the battery) or a starter (it’s brand new but i have seen em bad) or a coil, which i think is original. It’s got 975 hrs on it. Today, i ran it till it ran out of gas, mowing my Dads shop field! Ive changed the oil and it runs flawless. Last night I tightened all the battery connections and made sure it was grounded good. Help me, im stumped!!

[squonk 43,811]

Get that battery tested. 

[Gasaholic 294]

All I can think of: 

1) Carb leaks gas and raw gas runs into cylinder causing a hydro lock 

2) Starter pulling too many amps (broken magnet? brushes sticking? loose connection causing bad ground path? Thermal issues with starter? (tight bearing that gets worse when hot for example, or assembled not quite in-line, causing binding, etc.))

3) Electrical connection (Cable to terminal contact - thermal expansion causing poor connectivity? loosening bolts? any paint/rust between terminals and points of contact?) 

4) Battery seeing thermal breakdown (surface charging only?)

5) Battery been load tested? Sometimes they test fine when cold but warmed up, they fail? 

 

Before you say "But it has new starter" - bear in mind that "New" is not the same thing as "Good" - like pretty much anything else electrical related especially. (Common with spark plugs, can't tell you how many times customer said "I put  new plug in it it still won't start" , I took out the new plug and put in another one,, fired right up and ran fine. 

 

Oh yeah, or the brand new OEM Battery cable another tech installed in the shop I worked at, wasted half an hour trying to figure out why it still wouldn't get any power, I showed him how to do a voltage drop test, and immediately found that the terminal had been crimped over *insulated cable* 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 05:47 PM by Gasaholic

[AHS 1,546]

11 minutes ago, Gasaholic said:

All I can think of: 

1) Carb leaks gas and raw gas runs into cylinder causing a hydro lock 

2) Starter pulling too many amps (broken magnet? brushes sticking? loose connection causing bad ground path? Thermal issues with starter? (tight bearing that gets worse when hot for example, or assembled not quite in-line, causing binding, etc.))

3) Electrical connection (Cable to terminal contact - thermal expansion causing poor connectivity? loosening bolts? any paint/rust between terminals and points of contact?) 

4) Battery seeing thermal breakdown (surface charging only?)

5) Battery been load tested? Sometimes they test fine when cold but warmed up, they fail? 

 

Before you say "But it has new starter" - bear in mind that "New" is not the same thing as "Good" - like pretty much anything else electrical related especially. (Common with spark plugs, can't tell you how many times customer said "I put  new plug in it it still won't start" , I took out the new plug and put in another one,, fired right up and ran fine. 

 

Oh yeah, or the brand new OEM Battery cable another tech installed in the shop I worked at, wasted half an hour trying to figure out why it still wouldn't get any power, I showed him how to do a voltage drop test, and immediately found that the terminal had been crimped over *insulated cable* 

 

 

 

The starter was brand new from DB…. Whether it was a rebuilt starter or a new one i do not know. I’ll try the battery, cause i have a brand new NAPA battery. It is hot underneath the hood… so coil was warm, starter was a bit hotter. 

[Gasaholic 294]

41 minutes ago, AHS said:

The starter was brand new from DB….

Like I said - New doesn't mean good. Anything can happen between a supplier's final quality control checks and the time you installed it... Without being able to test starter amps draw (You'd need a DC shunt and know how to use it, or a reliable inductive ammeter at a minimum) then it is a process of elimination - if everything else proves out good, starter is the only thing left, in which case careful disassembly (or ship it back to DB for testing) may be required - If the starter was dropped during shipment it is possible the magnets in the case broke which would make the starter do weird things like that, if not bind up outright.. most service shops will have means to check starter amps draw (I can't think of the spec offhand) for bench testing and/or if machine is brought to the shop )or the tech does a service call) they can then check amps draw when installed. 

 

But other than battery, as noted I made a checklist of other possibles to consider if a new battery doesn't solve the issue... (As I mention, clean tight terminal connections may be fine but how about where terminals crimp to cables, for example..) 

 

However I'd lay odds you'll find the problem before getting down to a starter issue.. 

[AHS 1,546]

I changed the battery before i went for the third mow, after i had mowed for about 45 minutes, i pulled it up on the trailer and shut it down. Then i was curious to see if it would start again, it did! I have never had a battery start it when it cold and then not start when its warm!! That’s a new one for me!! Thank you!!

[My_horse 19]

Just curious, what is the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine running?

[953 nut 59,984]

[AHS 1,546]

@953 nut yup!! I FIGURED that if the battery was still working, let it slide! All the other tractors i bought, haven’t been used for ages, they all need battery’s!!