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TonyToro Jr.

Painting a blackhood OPINIONS NEEDED

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TonyToro Jr.

So as many of you know I’m in the finishing stages of restoring my C-161 twin. We are now onto the last 3 steps and 1 of those is painting the hood.

We painted the black and it turned out great. Then we taped off all the black parts of the hooded and put the line where the red and black meets. We painted the red and it turned out pretty good. We used Rust Oluem Regal Red spray cans. Then we cleared the red with Rust Oluem crystal clear, clear coat. We let it sit for about 5 minutes then disaster struck. On one side of the red and black the paint and clear both just came out with the tape like slime and wrecked the edge. The other side turned out ok. Then since we know we gotta re-do it we just put it out into the sun to back on. Then after about 4 hours in the sun we noticed weird white spots and some strips of it all over the hood. We are thinking the reason everything happen was becuase of the clear coat.

Looking for some opinions on how you guys paint your black hoods.

Thanks!

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MainelyWheelhorse

@TonyToro Jr. You could fix your tape line issue with tape and a nail polish applicator with pint cans of the Rustoleum paint you used. I use that method for if i get a scratch or chip on my tractors. The clear turning white sounds environmental, Almost like it got too hot. It's especially odd since the paint didn't have issues except for the taped lines. I'd look at the directions again as I've heard Rustoleum takes a while to dry and harden up regardless of temperature. These are just some observations, one of the more seasoned painter members may be able to give you more info. 

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kpinnc

I've been following this thread and I noticed you painted the black first. I thought you were gonna teach me something new, because I've heard "Always paint the darker color last". 

 

Not sure if it matters or not honestly. But one thing I believe that I see is that you didn't scuff those black edges where the red would touch before painting. 

 

The rustoleum clear is actually pretty good stuff, but like most clear it shrinks a little. Since it's formulated specifically for rustoleum paint, the directions say spray withing 15 mins of base coat, or otherwise wait 24 hours. 

 

So two things stand out from your previous post that make me wonder:

 

1. As I already said, you didn't scuff the edges of the black to provide some hook up of the red coat. 

 

2. The only time I've seen rustoleum clear have a whitish look to it is when it is applied way too thick. I've done it myself, and it doesn't have any more luster when it's applied in a single thick coat. It actually tends to cloud up and attack the previous layer. It's meant to dry fast. When it can't, the solvents in it can harm the previous coat. Several light coats is still the way to go here. 

 

One more mention- between the red and black meeting point, or any other time you (very) lightly scuff (1500-2000 grit works great) a finish, wait 24 hours before painting over it. Scuffing provides a surface to grip, but it also opens pores in the coat and they have to cure again before applying anything over it. Painted 6 months ago? Makes no difference. 

 

@TonyToro Jr.

I posted this in a hurry and I hope it doesn't sound critical. I've been impressed by your work on this for a while. I also am not a great painter. What little I know I learned from a great professional painter before he retired, and only a few of his lessons apply because I have no paint booth nor do I regularly use high end finishes. Most of my stuff is on the rattle can level at best. 

 

That being said, three points do tend to apply to anything: prep is everything, sand between coats, never apply new paint over anything that hasn't had time to cure. The list goes on...

 

Your hood can be saved. It's happened to all of us. Happened to me a couple months ago. The finish seems to be where things bite back, and it's just part of the process. But it's also part of the challenge. And hard work may not always pay well, but somebody always recognizes it. We all recognize how hard you've worked here! Keep at it! :thumbs:

Edited by kpinnc
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RED-Z06

Every time ive tried to use clear i ended up stripping back bare and starting over, Even using high end clears with reducer and hardener that the manufacturer says is okay with the base coat.  I get wrinkles, cloudiness, discoloration, its too much work to have to restrip fresh paint and primer to do it twice.

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ri702bill
8 hours ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

We let it sit for about 5 minutes then disaster struck. On one side of the red and black the paint and clear both just came out with the tape like slime and wrecked the edge. 

You probably did not wait long enough, or pulled the tape in the wrong direction.

Next time, check to see if the paint is dry enough by placing a fingertip on the painted tape. If you get paint on your finger, it is still too wet.....

Pull the tape back almost 180 degrees flat to the surface and slightly away from the fresh painted edge.

I see you used masking tape, not the blue painter's tape. The solvents in enamel can disolve the glue in masking tape at the edge, allowing the paint to migrate slightly under. When you remove the tape, you are now pulling paint and tape glue.....

One trick is to use a sharp razor or X-acto knife to score the painted edge at the tape and painted panel before removal. Not for the fainthearted.....

 

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SylvanLakeWH

I never use clear coat so can't comment on that. I always do the black first. Not sure it matters - I'm No expert.

 

It almost looks like the tape wasn't sealed tightly where there creeping occurred...

 

I use only painters tape and peel back away from new paint as noted above be...

 

Sand the edge and try touch up first...

 

You're doing a GREAT job!!! Keep at it!!!

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squonk

Enamels take longer to dry. I have great success with Rustoleum spray cans and clear. But, in a 2 color application like this I would have either. Sprayed one color and let it sit for a few weeks at least then used top quality paint release tape. Then spray the other color and cleared everything. 

 

Or.

 

Like I did on Marvin. Use an automotive base coat /clearcoat system that is designed for quick drying and masking for quicker production work.

 

48215205_1638613834_MarvinGenny.jpg.d1775473d8d11b8eef062368b8322341(2).jpg.397432e2f6d70611a46056b36bd89fb2.jpg.4001c34f4de901cfd84a82f467e04d71.jpg

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TonyToro Jr.
6 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Every time ive tried to use clear i ended up stripping back bare and starting over, Even using high end clears with reducer and hardener that the manufacturer says is okay with the base coat.  I get wrinkles, cloudiness, discoloration, it’s too much work to have to restrip fresh paint and primer to do it twice.

That is pretty much everything that happened to the hood. Next time I don’t think we are going to clear coat.

Thanks!

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TonyToro Jr.
8 hours ago, kpinnc said:

I've been following this thread and I noticed you painted the black first. I thought you were gonna teach me something new, because I've heard "Always paint the darker color last". 

 

Not sure if it matters or not honestly. But one thing I believe that I see is that you didn't scuff those black edges where the red would touch before painting. 

 

The rustoleum clear is actually pretty good stuff, but like most clear it shrinks a little. Since it's formulated specifically for rustoleum paint, the directions say spray withing 15 mins of base coat, or otherwise wait 24 hours. 

 

So two things stand out from your previous post that make me wonder:

 

1. As I already said, you didn't scuff the edges of the black to provide some hook up of the red coat. 

 

2. The only time I've seen rustoleum clear have a whitish look to it is when it is applied way too thick. I've done it myself, and it doesn't have any more luster when it's applied in a single thick coat. It actually tends to cloud up and attack the previous layer. It's meant to dry fast. When it can't, the solvents in it can harm the previous coat. Several light coats is still the way to go here. 

 

One more mention- between the red and black meeting point, or any other time you (very) lightly scuff (1500-2000 grit works great) a finish, wait 24 hours before painting over it. Scuffing provides a surface to grip, but it also opens pores in the coat and they have to cure again before applying anything over it. Painted 6 months ago? Makes no difference. 

 

@TonyToro Jr.

I posted this in a hurry and I hope it doesn't sound critical. I've been impressed by your work on this for a while. I also am not a great painter. What little I know I learned from a great professional painter before he retired, and only a few of his lessons apply because I have no paint booth nor do I regularly use high end finishes. Most of my stuff is on the rattle can level at best. 

 

That being said, three points do tend to apply to anything: prep is everything, sand between coats, never apply new paint over anything that hasn't had time to cure. The list goes on...

 

Your hood can be saved. It's happened to all of us. Happened to me a couple months ago. The finish seems to be where things bite back, and it's just part of the process. But it's also part of the challenge. And hard work may not always pay well, but somebody always recognizes it. We all recognize how hard you've worked here! Keep at it! :thumbs:

Doesn’t sound critical at all. Thanks for the info!

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C-85

I am no paint expert and have had some failures too!  I recently redid a C145A hood and I painted the red first and then satin black.  For transition, I used painters tape and reversed it along the edges.  I did this to have a smooth transition instead of a hard line between the red and black.  After painting the red over the whole hood I used a 3M scratch pad on the areas that were going to be black.  I used Rustoleum IH red and no clear.  I thought about using the clear, but I was afraid to just because of all the things that have been mentioned.

 

C-85

 

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squonk

I have had ZERO issues with Rustoleum Chrystal Clear in the spray cans. Have been using the stuff for years. I am no painter. But I'm wondering if it's something in the environment that's causing problems. Are you doing anything else whilst painting? Spraying anything into the air before painting like WD 40 or carb cleaner can cause a problem. Even your neighbor if he's close enough can effect a paint job by spraying his petunia's

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Brockport Bill

i am 100 percent an amateur paint guy -- not a real restore guy like some of the awesome restored tractors seen here on RSq -- but i have used some rattle cans to rehab a few machines and attachments -- here is photo of a painters tape product i found that is for what they call "Delicate surface"-- I was able to apply tape on a 1 prior day painted surface that has not "hardened" for days, weeks, or months, No bleeding ---------- that helped me with border line for 2 paints on a 416 grill of black to red --- also did a c175 hood -- black border to red -- been able to get a pretty clean dividing line !!!!!!!!!!! Suggest to experiment with FrogTape to see what works for you????????

wh frog tape container.jpg

wh frog tape roll.jpg

wh 416-8 painted grill.jpg

wh c165 s2  painted hood.jpg

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TonyToro Jr.

:text-thankyouyellow:  everyone for the input . Tommorow I’m going to sad down the rough edges and tape it again and try it again with no clear coat this time. And I’m going to take the tape off within 5 minutes of painting so it doesn’t have enough time to hard but it also won’t run.

Will get back to you guys tommorow with how it turns out. Fingers crossed 🤞!

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TonyToro Jr.
4 hours ago, squonk said:

I have had ZERO issues with Rustoleum Chrystal Clear in the spray cans. Have been using the stuff for years. I am no painter. But I'm wondering if it's something in the environment that's causing problems. Are you doing anything else whilst painting? Spraying anything into the air before painting like WD 40 or carb cleaner can cause a problem. Even your neighbor if he's close enough can effect a paint job by spraying his petunia's

I was also thinking that. It was really humid that day so I think that has something to do with it. Neighbors are about 100yds away on both sides so we should be good with that. Don’t remember anything else in the garage at that time.
Going to try it again tommorow. 🤞

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Brockport Bill
2 hours ago, TonyToro Jr. said:

I was also thinking that. It was really humid that day so I think that has something to do with it. Neighbors are about 100yds away on both sides so we should be good with that. Don’t remember anything else in the garage at that time.
Going to try it again tommorow. 🤞

paint cans specify the max humidity -- i thinks its 55 percent???????? Good luck !

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TonyToro Jr.

So far so good. 
Going to repaint the black tommorow. 🤞 once again.

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Lee1977

What ever tape you use, if you have to paint out side don't leave it out side only long enough to get it painted. The hot sun make that tape a lot harder to get back off.

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