NEED SOME HELP

[pylp 6]

Hello all I am stumped. So I have a c160 with the khloer engine. I have cut with it 4 times already this year. Went out to start the mower and it started fine with a little bit of starting fluid ran for about 2 minutes straight then just died. I might have left the fuel valve off. Wouldn't have been the first time.I have not been able to start it since. I have taken the plug out cleaned it checked to make sure it was getting spark it is and reset gap to .25 as per manual. I have taken the fuel hose and turned it over it pumps gas continuously to carb. And I have just pulled the carb and cleaned it in my ultrasonic cleaner. The mower still will not start. I have spark gas and compression will not fire at all just turns and turns strong but no firing if I do spray it with starting fluid it backfires bad once or twice but that's it no firing or kicking just continues to turn. Thanks for any help. I can upload pics provide info as needed thanks all .

[WHX?? 51,330]

 

Did you clean and reset the points to .20 ? 

Possibly a timing or stuck valve problem. 

Edited June 6 by WHX??

[pylp 6]

When you say clean and reset the points where are they located ? And how could I check the timing thank you ! 

[kpinnc 14,226]

One sugesstion: Stop using starting fluid. It is not good for small flatheads. 

 

3 hours ago, pylp said:

I have spark gas and compression will not fire at all just turns and turns strong but no firing

 

One of these is less than it should be. If it sputters with starting fluid, fuel may be your problem. 

[RED-Z06 2,558]

Id start with a fresh plug, just to rule it out 

[pylp 6]

I thought I ruled out fuel with cranking it and watching the gas pump out of the feed line to the carb.also I have replaced the plug with a new one but might go buy a pack and try each one just in case. Where are the "points" located ? No sputter with starting fluid nothing. 

Edited June 6 by pylp

[RED-Z06 2,558]

32 minutes ago, pylp said:

I thought I ruled out fuel with cranking it and watching the gas pump out of the feed line to the carb.also I have replaced the plug with a new one but might go buy a pack and try each one just in case. Where are the "points" located ? No sputter with starting fluid nothing. 

Front right side of the engine under a thin metal cover, 2 screws.

[squonk 43,305]

 

[parsonsponyz 184]

[953 nut 59,161]

Have you been using gasoline with ethanol?  The ethanol will leave deposit in the small passages of a carburetor and prevent proper operation. I would suggest that the carburetor be rebuilt, new fuel lines installed with a gas filter, and non-ethanol gas be used from now on. You can find a station that sells E_Free gas at this website.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

ps, starter fluid is a bad idea on small engines.       

[oldlineman 1,513]

Second that, bad idea to use starter fluid in a gas engine, better to use carb cleaner or just gas in a spray bottle. Bob

[lynnmor 7,703]

39 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

Second that, bad idea to use starter fluid in a gas engine, better to use carb cleaner or just gas in a spray bottle. Bob

It is much better to use in a diesel, the damage is spectacular!

[pylp 6]

I reset my point to .020 and popped new plugs in still turns no start but i have a question on the points assembly should the bottom screw that holds the wire ever touch the metal tab at the bottom of the assembly bc mine never does through the entire cam stroke also could points just go bad I cleaned them very thoroughly still nothing the is the assembly sideways the screw to the right side on top never touches the metal colied tab also I've noticed after trying to turn it over a couple times the carb leaks gas from the float idk why it's a brand new carburetor only ran 4 times and ran fine till now 

Edited June 6 by pylp

[WHX?? 51,330]

41 minutes ago, pylp said:

couple times the carb leaks gas from the float idk why it's a brand new carburetor 

Any chance it's an offshore carb? If so could be your problem right there. 

The screw that holds the point spring down and captures the coil terminal must be isolated from ground. 

[pylp 6]

Yes I did order the carb cheap off Amazon but that was 3 years ago it ran fine until now no problems that carb ran but that's why I did disassemble and cleaned the carb bc I fired it up it ran for a few minutes then just died. I am on my way to get new points and is there a way to test the condenser? But today after messing with the points and what not say the bottom of the carb just dripping gas so I'm lost I don't wanna just throw parts at it thanks all 

[Handy Don 13,667]

This terminal, and the wire to the coil connected to it must not be grounded except when the points are closed. 

[pylp 6]

Yes handy don when the points are closed that screw still does not touch anything I have sat and rotated my crank multiple times watching it the points just open close but nothing on that screw 

Edited June 6 by pylp

[Handy Don 13,667]

21 minutes ago, pylp said:

Yes I did order the carb cheap off Amazon but that was 3 years ago it ran fine until now no problems that carb ran but that's why I did disassemble and cleaned the carb bc I fired it up it ran for a few minutes then just died. I am on my way to get new points and is there a way to test the condenser? But today after messing with the points and what not say the bottom of the carb just dripping gas so I'm lost I don't wanna just throw parts at it thanks all 

You are facing two different problems--fuel delivery and spark.

Before spending more money, can you test that you are getting spark?

1. With a voltmeter, have the points installed and gapped. Switch off. Rotate the engine by hand to where the points are OPEN, then switch the ignition switch to RUN and test for 12v at the coil on the + terminal. No volts, no spark irregardless of fuel situation.

2. With a new plug out and laying on top of the engine but connected to the wire, crank the engine. See spark (it helps to do this in a darkened area). No spark, no fire. (This isn’t a foolproof method, FYI, as some plugs will fire out of the engine, but no when in surrounded by fuel vapor--but it is worth trying.)

 

Points RARELY wear out unless there is some other problem, like a failed condenser. Carbs do get dirty far more often. Ultrasonic is great, but for a larger particle wedged in a passage often a blast with cleaner or lightly with air will dislodge it. Leaking from the carb says the float valve is either worn or broken. 

Edited June 6 by Handy Don

[pylp 6]

I have tried the spark plug out and it does spark i bought a pack of new ones. Now could the condenser being bad cause no start even with spark or they go hand and hand. I'm trying to rule out if it's just the condenser. I did a pretty good job clear the carb tho I checked all my valves and passages after the cleaning I could see daylight through all it was a complete disassembly and cleaning I've probably cleaned 20 carbs by now if not more so Im confident it's clean but functional is another thing because it is a offshore thank you lastly what would the no 12volts at the coil mean? 

Edited June 6 by pylp

[Handy Don 13,667]

The engine will spark without a condenser. Its job is to protect the points over the long run. You can disconnect it for now. 

[Handy Don 13,667]

If you have spark, you do not need new points and probably not a condenser either. Did you do the voltmeter test? Result?

 

Your problem is most likely that the carb is delivering too much or too little fuel. 

Edited June 6 by Handy Don

[pylp 6]

I have not yet done the multimeter I will here shortly. If 12 volts then it is the carburetor? 

[RED-Z06 2,558]

The way the ignition works.

 

The key switch in the Run and Start positions provides 12v to the + side of the coil.  The points and condenser ground to the block, and the points attach to the - side of the coil.  When the engine rotates, the points close, this completes the circuit to ground between the positive side of the coil and the block.  This allows the coil to energize the primary windings around an iron rod, creating a magnetic field. When the points open, the circuit is broken, the magnetic field collapses, and induces an electrical current through the secondary windings, and out the top to the plug wire.

 

So, the points simply complete the path to ground to charge the coil, and when they open, you get a spark.

[WHX?? 51,330]

1 hour ago, pylp said:

Yes I did order the carb cheap off Amazon but that was 3 years ago 

Well that shoots down my thought you got a bad one. We yak alot about those here and a few refuse to use them. 

With gas coming out any chance the float sticking open ? 

[pylp 6]

So it'd be wise of me to clean up the + and especially the - posts on the coil but me getting spark when turning the engine from the plug  shows the current is completing with the points? And I'm not sure I cleaned it very thoroughly didn't see any damage or debris in the carb. When I reassembled I played with the float and made sure the valve opened and closed and the clip stayed on. It all checked out but now it's leaking after a handful of turns idk if the rubber gasket i pinched that goes around the float bowl cover idk I just know I'm stumped I'm getting spark im getting gas it's turning i have good compression