Engine Replacement for a C-195

[8ntruck 7,771]

Since this is an engine discussion, I'll  post it here.  Just a thought experiment for now.

 

Clyde, my C-195 has a Series 1 KT 19 with over 1000 hours showing on the hour meter.  I figure that sooner rather than later, it is going to expire.  

 

What kind of replacement engines come to all of ya'alls creative minds? 

 

The tractor will be used for mowing, moving trailers around, and maybe skidding logs, moving firewood, and hauling powered implements (log splitter, chipper/shredder)to work sites.  Possible grading and snow plowing.

 

My thoughts in no particular order:

 

A fresh KT 19 series 2.

B&S 18hp boxer twin.

Vanguard 20hp V twin.

Predator 20hp V twin.

Think a Wisconsin V 4 would fit?

I remember that somebody swapped a diesel of some sort in one.

A Kohler M18.

Kohler K341.

20 hp Onan.

[kpinnc 14,567]

 

2 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Vanguard 20hp V twin.

 

Of course I am a fan of Vanguards up to 23hp. But the majority of your list all look good to me. 

 

Maybe not the predator as a first choice (just my personal opinion), but they do at least have a large aftermarket mod supply... 

 

Edited May 30 by kpinnc

[Bill D 2,246]

3 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Since this is an engine discussion, I'll  post it here.  Just a thought experiment for now.

 

Clyde, my C-195 has a Series 1 KT 19 with over 1000 hours showing on the hour meter.  I figure that sooner rather than later, it is going to expire.  

 

What kind of replacement engines come to all of ya'alls creative minds? 

 

The tractor will be used for mowing, moving trailers around, and maybe skidding logs, moving firewood, and hauling powered implements (log splitter, chipper/shredder)to work sites.  Possible grading and snow plowing.

 

My thoughts in no particular order:

 

A fresh KT 19 series 2.

B&S 18hp boxer twin.

Vanguard 20hp V twin.

Predator 20hp V twin.

Think a Wisconsin V 4 would fit?

I remember that somebody swapped a diesel of some sort in one.

A Kohler M18.

Kohler K341.

20 hp Onan.

Any Kohler KT or M series twin must be a Wheel Horse spec engine with internal thrust bearings to handle the side load from the PTO.  My vote is a 18 HP Briggs boxer twin.  

[ebinmaine 72,357]

I agree with both above. 

 

Easiest:  keep watch for a direct replacement Kohler 19 HP. 

Literal bolt in with no mods. 

 

Next in line to me would be either Briggs Vanguard or a flat twin as mentioned. 

 

"Out of the running" IMHO: predator. Yeah they're cheap and available and easily modded....

We give enough money to that market already. 

I have - and will again - spend twice the money rebuilding an old Kohler before I'll buy a new cheap copy. 

 

Most interesting?  Definitely something unusual like the Wisconsin  V4....

Lots of Cool Factor there. But the PTO situation could be a deal breaker.  

 

 

 

[wfrpalm 218]

I would just go through it and refresh or replace.

[kpinnc 14,567]

47 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I have - and will again - spend twice the money rebuilding an old Kohler before I'll buy a new cheap copy. 

 

Kinda hard to argue with that. 

[pfrederi 18,628]

How many hours a year do you put on the C-195...How old are you?  Change the oil stay off steep slopes for extended periods and you can get another 1000 hours out of a KT.

[953 nut 59,728]

If the maintenance history on the Series 1 is good and you do as Paul @pfrederi said I wouldn't worry about it expiring. The Kohler "M" would be a good swap, just add a kill relay to the ignition and you are good to go.

[WHX?? 51,688]

Good thread since there are many horses out there with KTs that deserve a new lease on life.

 

I like KP's Briggs or a Honda if I had your wallet Truck...

The guy I sold my ailing Super to put a big Predator in it and is a beast. It had the rear PTO but I guess he wasn't worried about the bearing side load. 

Maybe a good series 2 if you could find one. 

 

2 hours ago, wfrpalm said:

and refresh or replace.

Not worth  refreshing any series 1 economically wise. I looked into that and could have almost done two repos for the cost. and you still have a bad rap motor. 

Again series 2 replace yes IF you could find a donor tractor. 

 

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

rebuilding an old Kohler

True EB but we're talking a KT 1 here. 

 

4 hours ago, Bill D said:

My vote is a 18 HP Briggs boxer twin. 

Not a bad I idea either Bill. Plenty of those out there in a 18 HP IC flavor. No idea if those have the side load PTO bearing tho. 

[pfrederi 18,628]

Two things

 

  Don't worry about side loading get an electric PTO

 

Agree would be a fools errand to overhaul a KT Series 1.  I did overhaul an M-18 it was expensive and parts are getting hard to find or $$$.  As much as I like my KT17s  I would not do it to them

[Bill D 2,246]

4 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Good thread since there are many horses out there with KTs that deserve a new lease on life.

 

I like KP's Briggs or a Honda if I had your wallet Truck...

The guy I sold my ailing Super to put a big Predator in it and is a beast. It had the rear PTO but I guess he wasn't worried about the bearing side load. 

Maybe a good series 2 if you could find one. 

 

Not worth  refreshing any series 1 economically wise. I looked into that and could have almost done two repos for the cost. and you still have a bad rap motor. 

Again series 2 replace yes IF you could find a donor tractor. 

 

True EB but we're talking a KT 1 here. 

 

Not a bad I idea either Bill. Plenty of those out there in a 18 HP IC flavor. No idea if those have the side load PTO bearing tho. 

There is a chart somewhere showing which Briggs engines have ball bearing supported crankshaft.  Someone here had it.  Most 18 I/C engines should have ball bearings. You will need to find PTO parts.   The Briggs stuff is different than the Kohlers. 1" crankshaft different hoop and engine bracket, different mounting plate.

[WHX?? 51,688]

2 hours ago, Bill D said:

Briggs engines have ball bearing supported crankshaft. 

I would think most larger engines would have balls?  Maybe not the preds? 

[8ntruck 7,771]

14 hours ago, pfrederi said:

How many hours a year do you put on the C-195...How old are you?  Change the oil stay off steep slopes for extended periods and you can get another 1000 hours out of a KT.

That's the course I'm on now.

[PWL216 1,027]

Not knowing what PTO sideload is, I asked ChatGPT (hey, gotta get my $20 a month worth 🤪).

……………

On a small engine, “PTO sideload” refers to the sideways force exerted on the crankshaft at the Power Take-Off (PTO) end—typically where a pulley, belt, or other accessory is mounted. This force occurs when:

• A belt drive or pulley system pulls sideways on the PTO shaft.
• Attachments like mower decks, tillers, or pumps are mounted and apply lateral pressure.

Why PTO Sideload Matters:

• Engine bearings (especially on the PTO side) must be designed to withstand sideload stress.
• Too much sideload on an engine not designed for it can cause premature bearing or crankshaft failure.

Examples of PTO Sideload Use:

• Riding mowers with belt-driven decks
• Tillers using side-mounted drive pulleys
• Water pumps with belt drive configurations

 

Engine Labels:

 

Engines may be rated with “PTO side load capability”, often stated in pounds of force at a specific distance from the crankshaft centerline. This rating helps ensure compatibility with belt-driven systems.

[CCW 1,376]

The Honda I put into my 312-8 making it a 320-8 is working great.  See my thread on the project.

312-8 repower - Engines - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

[Lee1977 7,185]

Briggs  Vanguard or Honda either would work.  Most Vanguard crank shafts are !", but they can be ordered with a 1 1/8" crank shaft.

I have two Vanguards a 18 HP in my C-120 and a 16 HP in my 312-8.

[Bill D 2,246]

1 hour ago, Lee1977 said:

Briggs  Vanguard or Honda either would work.  Most Vanguard crank shafts are !", but they can be ordered with a 1 1/8" crank shaft.

I have two Vanguards a 18 HP in my C-120 and a 16 HP in my 312-8.

I like that you kept the pull start.  Great backup if you're out in the woods and the starter dies.

[bds1984 1,497]

On 5/31/2025 at 8:11 AM, PWL216 said:

Not knowing what PTO sideload is, I asked ChatGPT (hey, gotta get my $20 a month worth 🤪).

……………

On a small engine, “PTO sideload” refers to the sideways force exerted on the crankshaft at the Power Take-Off (PTO) end—typically where a pulley, belt, or other accessory is mounted. This force occurs when:

• A belt drive or pulley system pulls sideways on the PTO shaft.
• Attachments like mower decks, tillers, or pumps are mounted and apply lateral pressure.

Why PTO Sideload Matters:

• Engine bearings (especially on the PTO side) must be designed to withstand sideload stress.
• Too much sideload on an engine not designed for it can cause premature bearing or crankshaft failure.

Examples of PTO Sideload Use:

• Riding mowers with belt-driven decks
• Tillers using side-mounted drive pulleys
• Water pumps with belt drive configurations

 

Engine Labels:

 

Engines may be rated with “PTO side load capability”, often stated in pounds of force at a specific distance from the crankshaft centerline. This rating helps ensure compatibility with belt-driven systems.

 

 

Chat GPT may be fine if proper terms are used.  Side load isn't what manual PTOs are concerned with when we're talking about Wheel Horse tractors and compatible engines.  It is Axial load.

Briggs and Stratton flat twins in 18Hp flavor are mostly safe to use since they have the proper bearings, 16 HP will have to check the model number to be sure; 422437 is the most common I see.  The boldened/underlined character needs to be a 3 or 4 to be safe for a Wheel Horse manual PTO; these engines have ball bearings on the crank.  Any Kohler engine that isn't a K or Magnum will have to have the spec number on hand to determine what type of crank bearings are used.  

My 1st vote would be for a K341 or M16 for the replacement but I understand that those engines are in short supply and aren't cheap if you find a good one.  Knowing that, my second vote would be the Briggs Vanguard route since those can be had new and I've put thousands of hours on them with little trouble.  Third vote would be the Briggs 18hp opposed twin.  The later flat twins were available with full pressure lube/oil filters and had a nice snarly sound like the old KT Twins did.  I'm sure a Honda would be just as happy under the hood, I just don't have any experience with them.  While I like the old Kohler twins and Onans, parts for them are harder to find, with Wheel Horse spec Kohler Twins are even more difficult to find so I generally pass on them unless they're lower hour rigs. 

Predator 670s, well, I see people run them and are happy with them.  I just wonder about the parts availability and how people are running Wheel Horse PTOs on them with plain bearings.  The only way I'd run a 670 involves sinking more money into upgrading the charging system to be able to run an electric PTO.  At that point I am $1,500 - $1,700 into that adventure which is in the territory of a new 23hp Briggs engine.  

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 72,357]

3 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

Briggs  Vanguard or Honda either would work.  Most Vanguard crank shafts are !", but they can be ordered with a 1 1/8" crank shaft.

I have two Vanguards a 18 HP in my C-120 and a 16 HP in my 312-8.

 

 

 

 

When you went from 12 horsepower up to 16 or 18 was the difference immediately noticeable? Or is it the kind of thing you only really feel if you're trying to get through thick grass or otherwise use the pto?

[Wayne0 1,163]

On 5/30/2025 at 12:59 PM, Bill D said:

There is a chart somewhere showing which Briggs engines have ball bearing supported crankshaft.  Someone here had it.  Most 18 I/C engines should have ball bearings. You will need to find PTO parts.   The Briggs stuff is different than the Kohlers. 1" crankshaft different hoop and engine bracket, different mounting plate.

All on the GT Work horse Briggs twin series.

Edited June 2 by Wayne0