Battery Corrosion

[rmaynard 16,175]

Last year I pulled my 1977 B-100 out of storage to bring to the Big Show. The battery was old and needed a charge, so I just decided to purchase a couple of new ones. When installing the new battery, I put a rubber mat under it to help it from moving around. I used it at the show and around the house last summer. I put it away for the winter with a battery tender attached. Fast forward to Saturday. I pulled the B-100 out to change the oil, and the entire bottom of the battery, the rubber mat, and the battery box were covered with white corrosion. It had damaged the paint. The entire rest of the battery was corrosion-free including the cables and terminals. So my question is; is the battery bad (maybe a leak), did the rubber mat have an effect? I have placed the battery in a plastic tray and have not seen any leakage. The water level appears normal. 

Scratching my head.

[stvski80085 208]

Some of the cheap tenders can still over charge a battery.  They don't ever turn off and continue to put low power all the time.  There are good ones that actually shut off and on as needed.  Not saying that is an issue for you but many cheap ones made in china I find actually worse then once a month I throw on a battery charger but I also always remove my batteries from equipment if I'm not gonna use it for a month or so.  It only takes me a couple minutes to put in if I need it and I don't have to have one for every machine I have.  The main issue is your tender is causing the battery to off gas.  

Steve

Edited May 21 by stvski80085

[rmaynard 16,175]

13 minutes ago, stvski80085 said:

 The main issue is your tender is causing the battery to off gas.  

Why would that cause only the bottom of the battery to be affected? As I said, there is no corrosion on top of the battery, and none on the terminals where it is normally found?

[ebinmaine 71,781]

7 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

Why would that cause only the bottom of the battery to be affected? As I said, there is no corrosion on top of the battery, and none on the terminals where it is normally found?

 

I'm not a trained Scientist by any means but I can throw out a guess here. There's going to be some small amount of gaseous sulfuric acid coming out of that battery while it's being charged. It's possible that it's settling downward as it should, and not settling on the top as you would expect, because there is better ventilation for evaporation at the top of the battery.

[Handy Don 13,671]

45 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'm not a trained Scientist by any means but I can throw out a guess here. There's going to be some small amount of gaseous sulfuric acid coming out of that battery while it's being charged. It's possible that it's settling downward as it should, and not settling on the top as you would expect, because there is better ventilation for evaporation at the top of the battery.

Yep, a combination of the tender charging and the gas behavior. The vented gas (vapor) is settling down into the tray and the acid is condensing out of the vapor there. I’m surprised you did not get a sealed battery since they are readily available even at the lower price points. 

[ebinmaine 71,781]

Just now, Handy Don said:

sealed battery

 

I'm fairly sure none of the batteries we have up here are actually sealed. There's a small vent on each end. I don't know if that's a state to state thing but I'm not sure I've ever seen a small engine battery that's sealed like a larger car battery.

[squonk 43,314]

I tried a cheap tender from Horror Fright once on my Motorcycle. noticed a lot of off gassing. Went to a Battery Tender brand on all of my tractors and haven't had an issue. My Power King is on a tender all year.

[squonk 43,314]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'm fairly sure none of the batteries we have up here are actually sealed. There's a small vent on each end. I don't know if that's a state to state thing but I'm not sure I've ever seen a small engine battery that's sealed like a larger car battery.

Even car batteries are not sealed. They have a vent somewhere.  A lead acid battery has to be vented.  AGM batteries have a pressure relief valve that vents

[Handy Don 13,671]

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'm fairly sure none of the batteries we have up here are actually sealed. There's a small vent on each end. I don't know if that's a state to state thing but I'm not sure I've ever seen a small engine battery that's sealed like a larger car battery.

Agreed. Noted that poster was able to check water level in the battery so it’s not a “sealed” unit. 

[rmaynard 16,175]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

 The vented gas (vapor) is settling down into the tray...

This is an open tray. No place to accumulate.

[c-series don 9,761]

Bob, when you say open? Do you mean like the factory one that has the one inch lip around the edge? 

[rmaynard 16,175]

23 minutes ago, c-series don said:

Bob, when you say open? Do you mean like the factory one that has the one inch lip around the edge? 

Yes, 1977 B-100

[lynnmor 7,703]

I had Walmart batteries waste battery trays, paint, and other parts, NEVER again!  A cheap battery tender is worse than none at all, I use only Battery Tender brand and then for only three days each month.  The rubber mat did nothing, the old wives tale about wooden boards is nonsense. 

[8ntruck 7,615]

@lynnmor - what old wife's tale is that about a wooden board under a battery?  Something about preventing the battery from loosing charge into the ground?

 

I only ask 'cause I found a piece of 1/4" plywood under the dead battery in the Allis Chalmers B-110 I got last year.  I ended up wire brushing and pai ting the battery bay before I put the new battery in.  Didn't put the plywood back, since I thought that it could absorb battery acid and encourage corrosion.

[lynnmor 7,703]

1 minute ago, 8ntruck said:

@lynnmor - what old wife's tale is that about a wooden board under a battery?  Something about preventing the battery from loosing charge into the ground?

 

I only ask 'cause I found a piece of 1/4" plywood under the dead battery in the Allis Chalmers B-110 I got last year.  I ended up wire brushing and pai ting the battery bay before I put the new battery in.  Didn't put the plywood back, since I thought that it could absorb battery acid and encourage corrosion.

Many, many years ago batteries had a hard rubber case that allowed both liquid and electrical leakage, setting them on a board gave some insulation between the battery and other things.  Modern batteries have a plastic case so it doesn't matter what it sits on, I just wanted to nip that theory early in this thread.

[953 nut 59,178]

            Leaving a battery tender on 24 / 7 / 365 is not a good idea in my opinion.   One day a week or less should do the trick, if not you needed a new battery anyway. I try to get them out for a run at least once a month and get three or four years out of a Walmart battery.

[squonk 43,314]

I have gotten 5 years out of the "dreaded Wal-Mart battery " leaving a good Tender on all year. My Power King sits a lot. Always plugged in and if I need to use it it's ready to go. 

[ebinmaine 71,781]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

Many, many years ago batteries had a hard rubber case that allowed both liquid and electrical leakage, setting them on a board gave some insulation between the battery and other things.  Modern batteries have a plastic case so it doesn't matter what it sits on, I just wanted to nip that theory early in this thread.

 

Yeah that's a neat piece of ancient vehicle history ain't it??

 

Those hard batteries went out back in.... the 50s maybe?

 

And 70 YEARS LATER people are still absolutely convinced it's necessary.  

 

 

 

 

[squonk 43,314]

They used to say " Don't store a battery on concrete " Today it's the best thing for them. Keeps them cool.

[stvski80085 208]

I’ve pretty knowledgeable on batteries.  I see no reason to leave a tender on all the time.  Once a month is really enough unless you have some sort of drain dragging it down.  If I have that happen I find the issue and fix it.  Even sealed batteries can still have slight leaks around posts and having the tender on all the time just cooks some of them. I deal with huge battery banks in my job and even most manufactures don’t recommend tenders for something just sitting there.  A ups yes it requires being ready for an outage but not a tractor battery.  I also stick with agm batteries and you won’t have that issue.  They can let off a little but not like lead acid.

steve

Edited May 22 by stvski80085

[rmaynard 16,175]

Learning some interesting things here. And since posting I have some updates and corrections. First, the battery is NOT new. My bad. It looks new, but it's a 2019. I took it from my John Deere and the JD got one of the new ones. All seven of my tractors had tenders on their batteries all winter. The temps in the building were below freezing much of the winter. Keeping the tenders on 24/7 kept them from freezing. This is the only one where I had the problem, and I don't think the problem stems from the tender, but from the rubber mat. The battery box bottom is designed not flat. It has wide ribs which would allow air to pass under the battery thereby allowing gasses to escape should they try to collect there. However, with the rubber mat, air could not pass under the battery. Just some thoughts to add to the mix.

[stvski80085 208]

5 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

Learning some interesting things here. And since posting I have some updates and corrections. First, the battery is NOT new. My bad. It looks new, but it's a 2019. I took it from my John Deere and the JD got one of the new ones. All seven of my tractors had tenders on their batteries all winter. The temps in the building were below freezing much of the winter. Keeping the tenders on 24/7 kept them from freezing. This is the only one where I had the problem, and I don't think the problem stems from the tender, but from the rubber mat. The battery box bottom is designed not flat. It has wide ribs which would allow air to pass under the battery thereby allowing gasses to escape should they try to collect there. However, with the rubber mat, air could not pass under the battery. Just some thoughts to add to the mix.

They sell warming mats for cold weather.  Shouldn’t drain if the battery has one.

Steve

[ebinmaine 71,781]

7 hours ago, rmaynard said:

Keeping the tenders on 24/7 kept them from freezing

 

Even up here we only charge a battery about every 3 to 5 weeks.  

 

BBT and I have 2 tenders that we swap around as needed. 

 

I've never had a battery freeze up that was less than 3 or 4 years old.  

[squonk 43,314]

I have rubber mats on several. No issues.

 

I get my Power King out maybe twice a year. If we get the right amount of heavy snow it's ready. I don't have to remember to plug it in. (Just unplug it!) My C160 stays plugged in all winter as I don't use it for snow. When spring hits I unplug it and it fires right up. 953 is plugged in all year. When I need to push snow it's ready or pull a cart around during the summer. 

 

Am I wasting electricity? Probably. Am I destroying batteries? No. Do I forget to plug in a tractor that sits a lot and when I go to use it it's dead ?No. 

 

I try to swap out a battery after 3 years. I then keep the old one kicking around for testing stuff off the tractor or if I buy a tractor with a shot battery I have a good one to put in. I also avoid having to buy 5 batteries all at once. It's a system that works for me. 

[rmaynard 16,175]

Well, no definitive answers here. So, I am sandblasting and repainting the battery box. I'll put this 2019 battery back in the JD and put the newer one in the B-100. I will get rid of the rubber mat. And I will continue to use battery tenders all winter long, 24/7 as I have done for the last decade. 

 

Lord willing, and the creek don't rise, I will report back next year if I remember. Meanwhile, since it's still raining here, I'll turn to brake linings. They are flying off the shelf for some reason and I need to make some more.