Fuel issue!

[JGuen 2]

So I’m new to wheel horse, barely understand how to tell the model etc. however I am decent with motors.

Current issue is my wheel horse with 14hp kohler motor will only stay running on starting fluid.

I cleaned the carb, replaced the fuel pump, then replaced the carb, and finally took the suction of the full pump and attached a line directly to a separate fuel can to make sure it wasn’t clogged.

im basically out of ideas, has to be a fuel problem but I can’t understand how.

I was reading something about a governor but even when I take control of the throttle on the carb it’s self it won’t stay running.

 

any help is greatly appreciated.

thank you

Jesse

 

[oliver2-44 10,397]

Tell us what model tractor you have so we know where the gas tank is located. 

Here’s some thoughts 
1st may I strongly recommend you stop using starting fluid on these small engines. They are not designed for it and you can damage them. Gas in a squirt bottle or carb cleaner works just as good. 
Many time you have to go step by step to find the problem 
Have you cleaned the tank, including the fine screened strainer that is part of the fuel shut off valve?

Also have you replaced the hose from tank to pump and pump to carb?

Just a note tractor that have the tank under the seat can have trouble and it’s common to put a boat type squeeze  bulb on the fuel hose, or switch to a electric pump. 

With good hose, remove it from the carb side of the pump and verify pump is working. 
Once you confirm the tractors fuel system is getting fuel to the carb move on to the carb. 
Some of us have not had the best success with cheap aftermarket chinesum carbs, especially on larger k series Kohlers. 
I’ve had carbs that I’ve cleaned 2 or 3 times to get some really hard deposits out of. I now use a ultrasonic tank and it really helps.  Also the carb needles have tiny holes in them top and bottom that need to be open. 
Air leakage can also cause problems while cranking spray some carb cleaner on the carb to block gasket and on the throttle shaft. If the engine suddenly want to start you have an air leak that is changing the air gas flow through the carb. 
 

Have you checked your spark plug and tried a different plug Sometimes a plug will work in open air but not under compression. It might have a weak spark that is enough for the starting fluid, but not hot enough for gas. 

Have you cleaned the points by drawing a dollar bill or brown paper bag through then to remove oxidation. 
Moving down the list, have you checked the timing/ points opening setting. 
 

Other guys will join in with more thoughts, Good luck

Edited April 20 by oliver2-44

[SylvanLakeWH 27,644]

 

And 

[953 nut 58,151]

9 hours ago, JGuen said:

has to be a fuel problem but I can’t understand how.

Many times a "FUEL PROBLEM" turns out to be an ignition problem. What engine are we having problems with? @oliver2-44 has given you a list of things to check over, let us know what you find.

[Lagersolut 723]

Is this tractor getting Ethanol gas ?  Ethanol breaks down rubber fuel lines into mush and fine particulates - last one I seen was a K181 on a Troy - previous owner replaced the carb - still couldn't get it to run so he sold it to my neighbor  - fuel line mush and particulates from running Ethanol went right into the jets and ruined new carb #2 - flushing the tank - new fuel line and a carb from I save old tractors fixed it .

[parsonsponyz 170]

[WHX?? 50,803]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

"FUEL PROBLEM" turns out to be an ignition problem.

 

11 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

cleaned the points

  check gap  & try a different condenser

[Ed Kennell 40,623]

to the 

 

Did you pull the fuel line off at the carb and crank the engine to see if you have a good spurting supply to the carb?

Edited April 20 by Ed Kennell

[daveoman1966 3,823]

A couple thoughts:  (1) Are the HI and LO external idle screws set properly? (2) Maybe the internal Needle & Seat valve are to blame...replace both as a kit from Kohler.      

[wallfish 17,568]

A new fuel pump may have difficulty sucking up fuel when it's filled with air.  Pressurize the tank to push fuel through the new lines and new pump to remove the air.

Could there have been water in the tank which also got into the new carb bowl before switching to a different fuel can?. Water in the carb bowl will allow it to fire from spray directly into the carb, but no running afterwards.

Drop the bowl and water would be at the bottom and visible. 

Was the bowl full of fuel? If not see above

Seems as though the pump is not pumping fuel. Try gravity feeding fuel to the carb bypassing the pump completely. That would verify engine operation and isolate the problem to fuel delivery if it runs.

 

[JGuen 2]

I appreciate all the comments and possible solutions! I have fuel lines, squeeze bulb, and new spark plugs coming in tomorrow to give a try. The wheel horse is a 414-8 with the fuel tank under the seat. My model number is very faded so hard to read however from my research it looks like it’s a 88’ or 89.

 

I took apart the fuel pump which the diaphragm and spring look pretty good. 
 

side note: the current spark plug gets black tipped pretty quick and I’m suspecting I may need piston rings. Does anyone know where to find these as well as head gaskets? Compression test is next on my to do list. And any tips before doing this work would be appreciated.

Edited April 23 by JGuen

[953 nut 58,151]

1 hour ago, JGuen said:

the current spark plug gets black tipped pretty quick and I’m suspecting I may need piston rings. Does anyone know where to find these as well as head gaskets? Compression test is next on my to do list. And any tips before doing this work would be appreciated

Spark plug quickly getting black could be a carb adjustment needed. Section 6 of this Kohler manual explains the adjustment process.

Your engine has a compression release cam shaft which makes it easy to start but prevents an accurate compression test.

 

[Ed Kennell 40,623]

On 4/20/2025 at 10:16 AM, Ed Kennell said:

to the 

 

Did you pull the fuel line off at the carb and crank the engine to see if you have a good spurting supply to the carb?

Did you do this ?

[WHX?? 50,803]

5 hours ago, JGuen said:

I took apart the fuel pump which the diaphragm and spring look pretty good. 

Guessing you took apart the check valve housing and checked those?

[JGuen 2]

just a little video to show the fuel flow that goes to the carb. I was able to get it running on fuel squirting a water bottle into the carb. This leads me to a carb issue.

 

I cleaning the carb probably 3 times, gonna take another shot at it this weekend. I placed the float in water and it does not have holes, the main center needle was cleaned ensuring the holes were clear when reinserted I set it at 2.5 turns out, the secondary needle set to 1.5, I tried blowing in the fuel line connection while holding float up and was not able to as expected, so I’m thinking I missed something I’m cleaning and going to give it another go.

 

does anyone know where to get a carb rebuild kit and how to tell carb model? There is nothing engraved on the side of this carb.

[stvski80085 171]

Post a close up pic of the Carb.

Steve

[clueless 3,121]

When you cleaned the carb what all did you do? There is cleaning and then there is real cleaning.

[peter lena 9,100]

@JGuen  after dropping carb bowl , on any recently acquired engine / tractor , like to  run it in on a separate gallon of  heavily treated fresh gas , have a regular step by step , to wake it up , oil change , etc  , typically  do  things that are not in the book , but quickly  cleans up a varnished smoking engine , just me , pete

[WHX?? 50,803]

Carefully drop the bowl and see if you can catch the float hanging up. 

 

Rebuild kits can be had anywhere. Google the part number.

Use only Kohler kits for proper needle/seat. Looks to be a standard Carter. Those can be had anywhere from $$ OEM to cheap offshore ones. 

Not much can go wrong with a carb that can't be fixed unless it's severely corroded. 

Check the throttle bushing for excess slop. 

[Ed Kennell 40,623]

35 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Rebuild kits can be had anywhere

Yes, even in my buckets.

[Ed Kennell 40,623]

13 hours ago, JGuen said:

just a little video

Maybe it's the camera, but that  appears to be a weak fuel supply.    It should have enough pressure to spurt a stream several inches.

[JGuen 2]

Just a few close ups of the carb. Throttle bushing does not have much slack/play. During my cleaning I removed both needles bowl, cleaned and checked float as well as little gas stopper needle. Took the needles and cleaned the small holes out they were pretty see through to start. Above the bowl was a screw the main needle contacts I could not removed this as it was previously stripped. My next course is to give it another good clean, soak the whole carb and look for a rebuild kit. 

[wallfish 17,568]

On 4/24/2025 at 9:51 PM, JGuen said:

just a little video to show the fuel flow that goes to the carb.

That should be plenty. It's more than the engine can use at full throttle and under load so the bowl would always stay full.

Is gas blowing out the front of the carb when it's running and you throttle up? (Black soot on the plug is a rich fuel condition) It could also kill the engine when throttling up

[JGuen 2]

10 hours ago, wallfish said:

That should be plenty. It's more than the engine can use at full throttle and under load so the bowl would always stay full.

Is gas blowing out the front of the carb when it's running and you throttle up? (Black soot on the plug is a rich fuel condition) It could also kill the engine when throttling up

Not spitting out the carb does sometimes when I spray too much fuel in with my water bottle of gas. Seems like I still have a carb problem. I’m a shift worker so that’s this weekends project again…

[JGuen 2]

Well brass screw above bowl was completely gummed up and it took me an impact screw driver to get it out. Somehow the person who put this in cross threaded it all the way. Can anyone tell me is my motor a K321? Looking to complete replace carb from a reliable source if anyone knows a good one.