Gen Set Air Comp Combo

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

I have this old Onan Gen Set that I have been trying to get running for some time.    I have given up on the Onan and decided to use a WH PTO to power the gen thru the Onan crankshaft.

 

Here's where I'm at.   I removed some tins, fan, spark plug, coil, and air cleaner.       Mounted an old wallowed out DD double pulley on the flywheel.

 

She runs an makes power.    After hearing the Putt Put from the plug hole and exhaust, I'm thinking with a few check valves, plumbing, and a tank it could also be a pretty good air compressor.

 

 

   Ideas, comments ????????????

 

 

[ebinmaine 63,312]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

After hearing the Putt Put from the plug hole and exhaust, I'm thinking with a few check valves, plumbing, and a tank it could also be a pretty good air compressor

 

 

I'd agree.  

 

Might be easier to find a non running gas compressor than find all the fittings

[wallfish 15,956]

Good idea Ed.

You can use a small tank if it's going to be a mobile unit. Just don't forget a pressure relief valve. Those tire tanks would work and have a valve

[pfrederi 17,169]

There was an optional hose that was available with old farm tractors.  Take out one spark plug thread the hose in Start her up and run on 3 cylinders inflate the tires with output of #4.  Always wondered about the advisability of filling a 13.6X38 rear tire with and explosive mixture of air and gas... But hey this was pre OHSA

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

5 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

There was an optional hose that was available with old farm tractors.  Take out one spark plug thread the hose in Start her up and run on 3 cylinders inflate the tires with output of #4.  Always wondered about the advisability of filling a 13.6X38 rear tire with and explosive mixture of air and gas... But hey this was pre OHSA

That does sound scary.    Bout like these guys using explosions to set beads.

 

I will be tapping into the spark plug hole, but no fuel involved.

[ebinmaine 63,312]

4 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

  using explosions to set beads.

 

That works well if done right. Not like most jamoches do it.  

[953 nut 51,939]

14 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Always wondered about the advisability of filling a 13.6X38 rear tire with and explosive mixture of air and gas.

We had one of those too.  Used it to get a load of hay with a flat tire in from the field then repaired the tube after unloading the wagon.  In those days it was a common practice to light the rubber-cement and put the patch on while it was hot. that day I felt it best to just allow the cement to air cure.

[wallfish 15,956]

26 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

That works well if done right. Not like most jamoches do it.  

Still do it myself sometimes for those stubborn tires that won't seat easily. Problem is the modern starter fluid is so dumbed down now it doesn't work near as good as it used to. You can see in Ed's gif that it's still burning afterwards and TWO cans sitting there. Probably tried it more than once before successful. The old school real ether stuff would flash so fast it didn't take 1/2 a can and was completely out in a blink of the eye.  Still dangerous though

[wallfish 15,956]

Maybe use the hose off a compression tester if you can't something.

Wonder if there's a way to manipulate the intake valves and lock the exhaust valve in order to get air on every other stroke?

Just think'n out loud again

[ebinmaine 63,312]

2 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Maybe use the hose off a compression tester if you can't something.

Wonder if there's a way to manipulate the intake valves and lock the exhaust valve in order to get air on every other stroke?

Just think'n out loud again

 

Perhaps remove the exhaust valve and cut enough off the cam end to prevent contact leaving the spring to hold it in place? Not all valves would be long enough to do this. 

 

Would a home shop made block off plate over the exhaust outlet hold back enough pressure? 

[JoeM 7,697]

20 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Still do it myself sometimes for those stubborn tires that won't seat easily.

Me too. I like having the tire vertical tho. Seems to work better IDK  A throw back from the UTV riding day I suppose. 

 

Ed maybe you can have r demo ready for the big show? Call it the old pump and glow. 

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

5 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Maybe use the hose off a compression tester if you can't something.

Wonder if there's a way to manipulate the intake valves and lock the exhaust valve in order to get air on every other stroke?

Just think'n out loud again

Here's my idea John.         Close both intake and exhaust valves. 

     Connect spark plug hole to a TEE.    One side of tee is check valved to only let air in on the piston down strokes intake and ignition.

The other side of the tee is check valved to only allow air into the tank on the piston up strokes compression and exhaust.

 

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

Just now, JoeM said:

 

Ed maybe you can have r demo ready for the big show? Call it the old pump and glow. 

Hey Joe,I sure coulda used it at last years show when I had those two flat tires on my trailer.

[Handy Don 10,656]

2 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

 Close both intake and exhaust valves. 

cut stems to keep them above the cam?

Get air on every revolution, too!

[Moparfanforever 737]

Sounds like a good idea to me !!

 

The first air compresser I had I built it using an old Mopar air conditioning compresser for the pump and an old propane tank. Worked really good. 

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

Looks like I'm on the right path....three great minds, John, Don, and Eric are thinking ....close the valves.      I'm thinking close both valves add a tee and two check valves and I have a simple piston pump working on all strokes.

[JoeM 7,697]

7 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Looks like I'm on the right path

Got to think about an unloader valve??

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

This may become a three way combo generator, air compressor, and battery charger jump starter.

I'm thinking because this has a battery start mode, it must also be able to  generate a high amp 12VDC.   

Next step is to measure AC and DC outputs and determine RPM required to lock on the 115VAC @ 60Hz.

[ebinmaine 63,312]

7 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Got to think about an unloader valve??

DEFINITELY. 

 

I wouldn't even THINK about running a compressor without a properly working pressure release. 

 

Maybe 2 set at different psi. 

A lot of commercial compressors have one at osha level and one at Oh 💩  level.  

 

 

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

18 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Got to think about an unloader valve??

I am Joe.  Could the pressure relief valve also be the unloader?       Probably better to have a pressure switch to open a valve at the tee to allow unrestricted air in and out of the cylinder.

[Handy Don 10,656]

13 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

A lot of commercial compressors have one at osha level and one at Oh 💩  level.  

This gave me my first chuckle of the day, thanks!

[Jon Paulsen 282]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Always wondered about the advisability of filling a 13.6X38 rear tire with and explosive mixture of air and gas...

The device you fellas were discussing is called an air chuffer or a tire chuffer. It has a diaphragm and some sort of check valve(s) designed to suck the air around it, not the fuel/air mix from the cylinder. So, it's perfectly safe. It pumps the air from near the spark plug hole. 

 

I had a fancy one. It had a pressure gauge. 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tire+chuffer&atb=v371-1&ia=web

 

Not to pick on @pfrederi. I'm just quoting because he brought up the safety of such a device. 

 

Now, I wonder if these are still manufactured. I can see these days someone would stick the engine end of the hose into the cigarette lighter and blow the fuse 

[Ed Kennell 35,919]

21 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I wouldn't even THINK about running a compressor without a properly working pressure release. 

That's a Gimme Eric.     I'm thinking this has to be a low pressure portable compressor.   Mainy to protect the Onan that probably has a max compression of less than 100PSI.

I can't allow the compressed air to blow by the rings back to the crankcase.     

 

[wallfish 15,956]

45 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

This may become a three way combo generator, air compressor, and battery charger jump starter.

I'm thinking because this has a battery start mode, it must also be able to  generate a high amp 12VDC.   

Next step is to measure AC and DC outputs and determine RPM required to lock on the 115VAC @ 60Hz.

INSPIRING !!!!!

That would certainly be one sweet mobile setup

[JoeM 7,697]

13 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I am Joe.  Could the pressure relief valve also be the unloader? 

Could kind of but crude. you would have this massive cycling of air pressure. 

 

I found this old diagram of course you don't need the idle down function. The unloader would allow the tank to be at the ready with say 100 psi and then go into maintain mode. More designed to maintain a pressure difference if you know what I mean. A relief valve just slams open.