855 steering issue

[horseman with no horse 22]

I noticed my steering had gotten extra sloppy on my horse, I assumed the tie rods were just wore (which they definitely are) so I began to disassemble the steering to get the tie rods off. I noticed the lower steering shaft assembly was sloppy due to someone replacing the roll pin with a bolt that was too small which wore it out causing slop. To top it off, the cast bushing assembly that the upper steering shaft rests in is broken in three pieces and somehow it hadn’t come apart before hand (thank god). Long story short I can’t find a new bushing piece/assembly online and I don’t even know the name of the part. From what I can tell it’s a standard piece across many different models, I just don’t know what’s it’s called.

[squonk 38,988]

Steering support block. #4412   #6396   # 88-2710-03  Call AZ Tractor. He prolly has a few dozen of them.

 

 

https://a-z-tractor.business.site/

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by squonk

[ri702bill 7,363]

50 minutes ago, squonk said:

Steering support block.

 

And there are 4 different versions, all are interchangable. The one shown is newer than yours - it has a bronze bushing at the point the steering wheel shaft goes in, will also have THINwall one on the bottom. It still has the thin cast "ears" - the latest version has both bushings AND thicker ears to resist cracking. 

These are usially the victim of frame twist due to twist in the frame from plowing.......

DO check the four holes in the frame plate where the Unidrive bolts on for signs of cracking - with a welder and an angle grinder those cracks can be fixed......

Edited September 6, 2023 by ri702bill

[Ed Kennell 35,904]

to the Horseman.           

44 minutes ago, squonk said:

Call AZ Tractor

Yep, Lincoln will fix you up with a good one.   a-ztractor.com     717 821 2542

 

[Pullstart 59,831]

6 hours ago, horseman with no horse said:

I noticed the lower steering shaft assembly was sloppy due to someone replacing the roll pin with a bolt that was too small which wore it out causing slop.

Do you have access to a welder?  You can weld the two pieces in place and discard the roll pin.

[WHX?? 46,890]

 

26 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

You can weld the two pieces in place and discard the roll pin.

Do you want me to trash you now or just wait!!!!

You ever had to take one apart that was farmer welded?!?!

Best bet Horseman is take the whole thing apart and re-drill the assembly for the next larger size roll pin it will accept. 

It's a chore and not for the average enthusiast. Been many a time a PO ran a bolt through there in my stables just to make issues worst in short order.  

If the steering block Squonky piced is trash we have plenty. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by WHX??
My bad welcome

[Pullstart 59,831]

9 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Do you want me to trash you now or just wait!!!!

You ever had to take one apart that was farmer welded?!?!

the later model lower steering shafts got that upgrade right from the factory.  I don’t see anything wrong with doing it correctly 

[Pullstart 59,831]

[Wild Bill 633 770]

10 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Best bet Horseman is take the whole thing apart and re-drill the assembly for the next larger size roll pin it will accept. 

I personally do not like cross drilling shafts because they reduce the local cross sectional area of the shaft reducing the amount of torque the shaft can transfer. Keep in mind, cross drilling a bigger hole further reduces the cross sectional area.

[953 nut 51,910]

1 hour ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

reduce the local cross sectional area of the shaft reducing the amount of torque the shaft can transfer.

                            You must be a lot stronger than most of us.  If the steering shaft can't withstand the torque of the fan-gear being turned against the steering components then there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Handy Don 10,656]

I welded this same joint on the 854 I refurbished. Even used flux-core but I made sure to really heat up the cast iron fan gear with a propane torch before doing the weld.

Be aware that getting the combined front arm/shaft/gear in and out through the frame rails can be tricky with the engine in place!

[Ed Kennell 35,904]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:13 AM, Wild Bill 633 said:

I personally do not like cross drilling shafts because they reduce the local cross sectional area of the shaft reducing the amount of torque the shaft can transfer. Keep in mind, cross drilling a bigger hole further reduces the cross sectional area.

Actually the pin is the weak link.  And this is a good thing as it can act as a shear pin if for some reason the steering locked up and Tarzan was steering the tractor.

 

Here is a sketch of the method I used to pin 5" dia. SST shafts to 48" dia. butterfly valves.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Ed Kennell

[squonk 38,988]

Short frame tractors steer easy. Welding it is overkill and drilling it larger is not going to hurt it. Wheel Horse had a Service Bulletin on the round hoods about drilling out the shaft and steering arms when the pins got weak and the holes got worn. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by squonk

[horseman with no horse 22]

I appreciate the help and advice on how to fix the wore roll pin. but the main issue is the bushing assembly/block that the upper shaft rests in is destroyed and I can’t seem to find one online or a part number.

[horseman with no horse 22]

22 hours ago, ri702bill said:

And there are 4 different versions, all are interchangable. The one shown is newer than yours - it has a bronze bushing at the point the steering wheel shaft goes in, will also have THINwall one on the bottom. It still has the thin cast "ears" - the latest version has both bushings AND thicker ears to resist cracking. 

These are usially the victim of frame twist due to twist in the frame from plowing.......

DO check the four holes in the frame plate where the Unidrive bolts on for signs of cracking - with a welder and an angle grinder those cracks can be fixed......

Ohhhh yes the tank that is the uni drive mounted to that near paper thin frame. I already had her welded at the local shop I work at. It. Was. Horrendous. She’s good now. As for the “ears” on the bushing block they are both broken off. I need a new block I believe.

[horseman with no horse 22]

22 hours ago, squonk said:

Steering support block. #4412   #6396   # 88-2710-03  Call AZ Tractor. He prolly has a few dozen of them.

 

 

https://a-z-tractor.business.site/

 

 

Will do tomorrow! Thanks 

[Ed Kennell 35,904]

23 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

to the Horseman.           

Yep, Lincoln will fix you up with a good one.   a-ztractor.com     717 821 2542

 

 

[ri702bill 7,363]

So was the ol' girl used as a plow horse??? This frame is from an 854 that saw exclusive plow duty. Three of the four severely cracked out - with a 1/4" twist in the frame rails - and yes. a busticated lower steering block.....

 

 

[horseman with no horse 22]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:28 PM, ri702bill said:

So was the ol' girl used as a plow horse??? This frame is from an 854 that saw exclusive plow duty. Three of the four severely cracked out - with a 1/4" twist in the frame rails - and yes. a busticated lower steering block.....

 

 

Idk if she was a plower but definitely a wheelie horse and my buddy who owned her was not light. My cracks were a little worse, Going completely through the metal from bottoms to top on both sides. And there was some hairline cracking where the firewall/dash assembly meets the frame that I had to address.

[horseman with no horse 22]

Just now, horseman with no horse said:

Idk if she was a plower but definitely a wheelie horse and my buddy who owned her was not light. My cracks were a little worse, Going completely through the metal from bottoms to top on both sides. And there was some hairline cracking where the firewall/dash assembly meets the frame that I had to address.

When I had her welded I didn’t think to check for frame twist because I didn’t realize it was the underlying issue. But I don’t see any obvious twisting in the frame. Also it was repowered at one point with an h50 so I really don’t think it was used with a plow giving how gutless it was WITHOUT one 

[horseman with no horse 22]

alright im back at it finally! i got the steering block ordered and some new tie rods in the mail, my parts should be here monday. in terms of the steering the last thing is that pesky shaft. my shop says a roll pin wont hold despite it being the original design? should i drill it and roll pin it with locktite and put another smaller roll pin in the center like they said? or just smack in the over sized pin thats in my hand and be done?

[kpinnc 10,837]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:42 PM, WHX?? said:

farmer welded

 

I absolutely must know what this means! 

 

Because I myself live on a farm. 

 

...and I weld stuff often.

 

More accurately- I stick two pieces of steel together adequately so as they will break before separating. I never claim to be a welder. More of an albatross poop slinger so far as appearance, but never had a weld break. 

 

...kinda sounds like I answered my own question. 

Edited March 1 by kpinnc

[Ed Kennell 35,904]

1 hour ago, kpinnc said:

 

I absolutely must know what this means!

Able to weld over rust

Able to weld while laying in a muddy field

Able to weld while burning away paint and manure

Able to weld with a coat hanger and a 120VAC extension cord

Able to weld without a helmet using squinty eyes.

etc.

 

[horseman with no horse 22]

what should i do to fix the lower shaft?

[Lee1977 6,248]

Wheel Horse started welding them I know for sure In 1971 and maybe sooner because my Raider is welded and all my later models. Be sure to to have the triangle stright down and the fan gear stright up to get equal turning both ways. We have one member who like his to turn tighter to the left, I won't mention a name, I think most of us know who that is.