310-8 to B100 swap

[87buickt 9]

Hey all, looking for some quick tips/advice on some electrical stuff. I have the diagrams I need for the most part I believe, long and short I'm putting a Kohler K241 10hp from a 310-8 (1988ish maybe) into a B100, mid to late 70s ish my issue is the 2 random switches that I'm not sure what they do, one maybe PTO and another I have no idea, as of now I can't get power to go through the switch to the signal wire for the solenoid, I guess my question is, is there a way to bypass the micro switches and what not? Dead man's switch already done 

[johnnymag3 2,448]

the one in your left hand is the the clutch safety...

 

     .the other one...also in the left hand with 3 wires is the PTO safety

[953 nut 51,919]

We discourage the elimination of safety switches, they are there to save you from yourself. The thread below will show you how to convert from an battery/points based ignition system to a magneto ignition system without having to change the safety switches or ignition switch.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,513]

Both engines have the same ignition system?

One pto switch and the clutch switch control starter.

The other pto switch and seat switch control ignition.

[87buickt 9]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Both engines have the same ignition system?

One pto switch and the clutch switch control starter.

The other pto switch and seat switch control ignition.

both are points based, only additional connector i have on the donor engine is for the oil switch. Everything else was plug and play for the most part, i went ahead and pulled the entire harness out of donor 310 to install in b100 with the engine.

[rmaynard 14,924]

What year is the B-100?

[87buickt 9]

50 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

What year is the B-100?

Not exactly sure was a gift from someone who has since passed, never had the heart to tell him I grenaded the engine in it, hence why I got the donor  to eventually do a swap

[87buickt 9]

To all, I did end up getting it going and it appears to be charging as well, sitting around 12.4V. I appreciate the info and advice, what I ended up doing is I found the power signal wire that comes off the ignition switch, disconnected it from PTO switch which was connected to relay that no matter what I did even when supplying it a good ground would not function,(the relay that is) which in turn sends power to clutch safety switch to send power to lug on solenoid, gave it a direct connect and it fired right up

Edited August 16, 2023 by 87buickt

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,513]

That is likely the low oil relay. Designed to prevent starter operation if the oil is low.

[87buickt 9]

41 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

That is likely the low oil relay. Designed to prevent starter operation if the oil is low.

So in the picture above, the wires connected are for the low oil switch, so that's still in play.....BUT I did notice it had a constant 12V on it even with key off engine off and relay was warm, so I disconnected it and tried my luck and engine still fired up 

 

 

 

 

[ineedanother 1,365]

9 minutes ago, 87buickt said:

So in the picture above, the wires connected are for the low oil switch, so that's still in play.....BUT I did notice it had a constant 12V on it even with key off engine off and relay was warm, so I disconnected it and tried my luck and engine still fired up 

That's not right. That's not what I thought it was (I have it on mine without oil sentry) but power with the key off an not running is no bueno. Unplugged and running you're still charging at an acceptable level?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,513]

 

[87buickt 9]

12 hours ago, ineedanother said:

That's not right. That's not what I thought it was (I have it on mine without oil sentry) but power with the key off an not running is no bueno. Unplugged and running you're still charging at an acceptable level?

sure is 12.4V, ill tidy some things up here in the next few days and advise on any issues i may come across.

[ineedanother 1,365]

17 hours ago, ineedanother said:

That's not right. 

For clarification, what I was declaring to be wrong was having 12v there with the key off, not anything that had been suggested in other posts 

[87buickt 9]

1 hour ago, ineedanother said:

For clarification, what I was declaring to be wrong was having 12v there with the key off, not anything that had been suggested in other posts 

No I got ya, so on the power in side of my volt meter I'm showing 13.8 but not getting anything out and the gauge doesn't work, will this be an issue for me? I've only run the machine for about 2minutes or so and I monitored the voltage go up to 12.6V. it's a good strong battery and holds itself at 12.3v wondering if maybe I'm not charging? 

 

[Handy Don 10,656]

6 hours ago, 87buickt said:

sure is 12.4V, ill tidy some things up here in the next few days and advise on any issues i may come across.

12.4 when running well above idle speed is not sufficient. A better target is 13.5.

[87buickt 9]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

12.4 when running well above idle speed is not sufficient. A better target is 13.5.

Hmmm volt meter must be no bueno...well let's play musical chairs with the donor meter and see what happens 

[Handy Don 10,656]

19 hours ago, ineedanother said:

BUT I did notice it had a constant 12V on it even with key off engine off and relay was warm, so I disconnected it and tried my luck and engine still fired up 

I'm recommending a careful look at the wiring diagram for you model.

It is possible that you can find battery voltage at some places in the wiring while the ignition is in the off position. As long as there isn’t a complete circuit to ground, there is no issue.

[Handy Don 10,656]

4 minutes ago, 87buickt said:

Hmmm volt meter must be no bueno...well let's play musical chairs with the donor meter and see what happens 

Please don’t rely on the panel meters in the tractors! 🙃

They are “in the vicinity of” in their level of accuracy. A decent digital or analog meter is better if you are looking for ±1 volt differences.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Handy Don

[87buickt 9]

10 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Please don’t rely on the panel meters in the tractors! 🙃

They are “in the vicinity of” in their level of accuracy. A decent digital or analog meter is better if you are looking for ±1 volt differences.

I'm using my digital electric meter to determine voltages, I just know the meter has to be part of the circuit in order to adequately charge the system. Had no continuity across the one, checked other one, it's good, gauge doesn't read but when I cranked the rpms up just a tad I was getting 12.8V

[ineedanother 1,365]

I just went and looked at my 312-8 which is now a 310-8. The "relay" -looking thing in post #8 surely seems to be a voltage regulator which is why I stated earlier that I thought it was "something else." I recall now that I've gone and looked at mine. The white rectifier wires attach to the outside terminals and the center terminal attaches to the "R" blade on my ignition switch.

[87buickt 9]

36 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

I just went and looked at my 312-8 which is now a 310-8. The "relay" -looking thing in post #8 surely seems to be a voltage regulator which is why I stated earlier that I thought it was "something else." I recall now that I've gone and looked at mine. The white rectifier wires attach to the outside terminals and the center terminal attaches to the "R" blade on my ignition switch.

I thought it was a regulator as well but all diagrams show relay when tracing wires one by one and confirming it is a relay

[Handy Don 10,656]

1 hour ago, 87buickt said:

I just know the meter has to be part of the circuit in order to adequately charge the system

I’m not sure what you mean by this. 

Ammeters must be “in line” in the circuit to measure current but voltmeters are always in parallel to the circuit to measure voltage. 

In the diagram you posted, the voltmeter being connected should have no effect at all on the charging behavior (assuming the meter is not faulty). The meter only shows if a “charging level” voltage is present or not.

 

[Rick3478 376]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Please don’t rely on the panel meters in the tractors! 🙃

They are “in the vicinity of” in their level of accuracy. A decent digital or analog meter is better if you are looking for ±1 volt differences.

 

They are sometimes referred to in the industry as "indicators", as opposed to "meters" which have more closely defined accuracy and are actually used to measure things.