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Dreamcatcher

Key Switch or Solenoid?

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Dreamcatcher

At the start of winter, I pulled the battery and put it on a tender; all good there.  After putting the battery back in the horse, I was greeted by a no start condition.  Battery is good for sure.  Turn the key to ON, and turn on the lights, all good.  I have power to the solenoid, but no power going to the starter.  Again, everrything worked fine before pulling the battery.  Could it be the key? Solenoid?  I think I have to see if I get 12v at the other little wire going to the solenoid.  I'm guessing it should read 12v when the key is turned to start?  If it has 12v then it must be the solenoid?  If it turns out being the solenoid, can I purchase a new one?  Fuses are good.  The little post on the solenoid read no voltage when my wife turned the key to start. Tried many times, nothing.  I am thinking the key switch is bad? Thanks for your help

Edited 8 hours ago by Dreamcatcher

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gwest_ca

Is this the 417-A model? There are two switches between the ignition switch and the solenoid that need to be activated for the solenoid to get the start signal.

Pto switch - pto needs to be off to close the pto switch

Neutral or clutch pedal switch - Clutch pedal on the 8-speed models or hydro transmission must be in neutral for that switch to close and send power to the small solenoid wire.

 

 

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953 nut

Before you go out and buy parts you may not need do a few simple tests.

Why won’t my starter turn over from the key switch?\

Lets take a logical step by step inspection of your starter problem.

Is your PTO in the ON position, a wheel horse will not start with the PTO on.

Have you had the battery load tested at an auto parts store?

Have you cleaned and tightened all electrical connections including grounds?

Are all fuses good and fuse holders cleaned?

If these have all been done, we can check components of the starting system as follows; don’t skip a step or you may miss the problem.

Be sure the transmission is in neutral and the parking brake is set.

Take a pair of automotive jumper cables and connect the black cable to your battery  "-" and a good clean spot on the engine. Now connect the other cable to the large post on the starter and touch the other end to the battery "+" terminal, does the starter turn over? If the starter turns over the battery and starter are good. If it didn't turn over try the same steps with the battery in your car/truck, if that cures the problem then the "good" battery wasn't so good.

Presuming the starter turned over move the jumper wire from the starter post to the other end of the wire going to the starter which is one of the large posts on the solenoid. If the starter turns over when the battery is touched by the jumper as before then that cable is good, if not you have found your problem.

Presuming the starter turned over move that jumper to the other terminal of the solenoid, connect the other end to the battery and use a small piece of wire to temporarily connect the battery "+" terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid, this should cause the solenoid to close and the starter to turn over. If not, the solenoid is probably the problem.

If this was successful remove the large jumper cable and use the small jumper wire to the small terminal of the solenoid, the solenoid should close and the starter turn over. If not the cable to the battery is the problem.

Presuming all of these have been successful remove the black jumper wire and repeat the small jumper to small terminal, if the starter turns over the ground is good.

If all of these components test good then remove your ignition switch, be sure the transmission is in neutral, parking brake on, clutch depressed and PTO off. Use a small jumper to connect the terminals that were connected to the “B” and “S” terminals of the ignition switch. If the starter turns over then the PTO switch and other safety switches are operating properly and your ignition switch may be bad

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Dreamcatcher
1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

Is this the 417-A model? There are two switches between the ignition switch and the solenoid that need to be activated for the solenoid to get the start signal.

Pto switch - pto needs to be off to close the pto switch

Neutral or clutch pedal switch - Clutch pedal on the 8-speed models or hydro transmission must be in neutral for that switch to close and send power to the small solenoid wire.

 

 

 

The brake pedal was pressed, forcing the transmission to neutral and the PTO lever was not engaged. That being said I don't know if it was not engaged put partially pullled or pused.  Thank you for the suggestions. Confirming this is a 417-A

Edited by Dreamcatcher

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Dreamcatcher
16 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Before you go out and buy parts you may not need do a few simple tests.

Why won’t my starter turn over from the key switch?\

Lets take a logical step by step inspection of your starter problem.

Is your PTO in the ON position, a wheel horse will not start with the PTO on.

Have you had the battery load tested at an auto parts store?

Have you cleaned and tightened all electrical connections including grounds?

Are all fuses good and fuse holders cleaned?

If these have all been done, we can check components of the starting system as follows; don’t skip a step or you may miss the problem.

Be sure the transmission is in neutral and the parking brake is set.

Take a pair of automotive jumper cables and connect the black cable to your battery  "-" and a good clean spot on the engine. Now connect the other cable to the large post on the starter and touch the other end to the battery "+" terminal, does the starter turn over? If the starter turns over the battery and starter are good. If it didn't turn over try the same steps with the battery in your car/truck, if that cures the problem then the "good" battery wasn't so good.

Presuming the starter turned over move the jumper wire from the starter post to the other end of the wire going to the starter which is one of the large posts on the solenoid. If the starter turns over when the battery is touched by the jumper as before then that cable is good, if not you have found your problem.

Presuming the starter turned over move that jumper to the other terminal of the solenoid, connect the other end to the battery and use a small piece of wire to temporarily connect the battery "+" terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid, this should cause the solenoid to close and the starter to turn over. If not, the solenoid is probably the problem.

If this was successful remove the large jumper cable and use the small jumper wire to the small terminal of the solenoid, the solenoid should close and the starter turn over. If not the cable to the battery is the problem.

Presuming all of these have been successful remove the black jumper wire and repeat the small jumper to small terminal, if the starter turns over the ground is good.

If all of these components test good then remove your ignition switch, be sure the transmission is in neutral, parking brake on, clutch depressed and PTO off. Use a small jumper to connect the terminals that were connected to the “B” and “S” terminals of the ignition switch. If the starter turns over then the PTO switch and other safety switches are operating properly and your ignition switch may be bad

 

Is it possible to reach the terminal on the starter?

 

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953 nut
35 minutes ago, Dreamcatcher said:

 

Is it possible to reach the terminal on the starter?

 

May have to remove the hood, it is tucked in there kinda tightly on a K-Twin.

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8ntruck

The PTO safety switch on my no name 14 does not always close when the PTO lever is in the off position.  It sometimes needs to be wiggled around to close the switch.

 

Greasy Pete will probably gig me on this.  I think I need to shim the PTO lever, maybe bush the pivot holes and lube everything to eliminate the intermittent issue.

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Dreamcatcher
5 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

The PTO safety switch on my no name 14 does not always close when the PTO lever is in the off position.  It sometimes needs to be wiggled around to close the switch.

 

Greasy Pete will probably gig me on this.  I think I need to shim the PTO lever, maybe bush the pivot holes and lube everything to eliminate the intermittent issue.

 

Please describe where I might find this switch?

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8ntruck

The PTO safety switch is generally a push to make type switch mounted over the battery on the right hand side of the tractor under the hood.  A flag on the PTO control lever pushes on the switch when the PTO lever is in the off or disengaged position.

 

At least that is where it is on my 1973 no name.  Probably in a similar place on your 417.

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Dreamcatcher

Great news.  The key switch was NOT the problem.  An electrical connection beside the battery on the PTO side of the tractor had been knocked loose at some point.  My wife discovered it, reconnected it and the started got power.  Problem solved.  Than you for all your suggestions.

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953 nut
On 5/8/2023 at 7:04 AM, 953 nut said:

Have you cleaned and tightened all electrical connections including grounds?

Guess your wife read the third step in the troubleshooting guide.    :handgestures-thumbupright:        Happy Mother's Day Mrs. Dreamcatcher.

  • Haha 1

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