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RED-Z06

Onan P series governor spider failure and replacement

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RED-Z06

Ive done enough of these now its just another task ill be doing to any P series i get before i install the engine into whatever equipment its for or out of.

 

Basically the symptoms are consistent, loses engine speed under load, and runs too fast when the load comes off or the throttle is advanced off idle.  The plastic spacer splits and causes this, iSaveTractors has the metal spacers to fix it, i heat my spacers to about 550⁰ and put 638 retaining compound on to add security to it.  Its vital that the hole in the disc lines up at 3oclock with the pin in the cover on assembly 

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Edited by RED-Z06
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lynnmor

I did a quick search on iSaveTractors and didn't find it, are you sure that he didn't discontinue them?

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RED-Z06
25 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I did a quick search on iSaveTractors and didn't find it, are you sure that he didn't discontinue them?

You have to email him...he's out of the Onan parts business but still has some parts in inventory he will sell by request.

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Handy Don
16 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

You have to email him...he's out of the Onan parts business but still has some parts in inventory he will sell by request.

Man, being able to do the engine work outdoors on the tailgate of pickup is darned impressive!

How do you remove the spider that’s on the engine, especially if you’re trying to get on off a parts engine?

 

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RED-Z06
8 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Man, being able to do the engine work outdoors on the tailgate of pickup is darned impressive!

How do you remove the spider that’s on the engine, especially if you’re trying to get on off a parts engine?

 

Once these steel replacements are installed its a permanent fixture.

 

I have a 10ft high gantry next to the shop with a 3000lb chain hoist on it, i roll the tractor under it, unbolt everything, hook the strap around it and lift it up/out.  Then i push the tractor back, and back the truck under...set the engine down on the tailgate.  Beats bending over and lifting stuff.  

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Handy Don
1 hour ago, RED-Z06 said:

I have a 10ft high gantry next to the shop with a 3000lb chain hoist on it, i roll the tractor under it, unbolt everything, hook the strap around it and lift it up/out.  Then i push the tractor back, and back the truck under...set the engine down on the tailgate.  Beats bending over and lifting stuff.  

 

I agree about bending for work and for lifting--those days are g o n e gone!

I put a strong point in my garage ceiling for the same purpose. First used when swapping an engine onto a roller. Since then I also got a hydraulic lifting cart (similar to the ½ ton HF model) for much easier access to mowers, blowers, engines, etc. BTW, it’s also fun for giving seated grandchildren a lift!

 

Still curious about how you get a good flyball spider off the camshaft without damaging anything--I have a good one on a parts engine that I’d like to save as a spare.

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RED-Z06
31 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

I agree about bending for work and for lifting--those days are g o n e gone!

I put a strong point in my garage ceiling for the same purpose. First used when swapping an engine onto a roller. Since then I also got a hydraulic lifting cart (similar to the ½ ton HF model) for much easier access to mowers, blowers, engines, etc. BTW, it’s also fun for giving seated grandchildren a lift!

 

Still curious about how you get a good flyball spider off the camshaft without damaging anything--I have a good one on a parts engine that I’d like to save as a spare.

There really isnt anything to grab onto, the spider comes down nearly flush with the thrust plate on the gear.  Tou could try to drill and tap some 1/4-20 holes but its really thin around the hub already.  Ive looked into pulling the whole gear.

 

But at $50 a pop for a new spider and you do it once and done...not worth the effort.

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RED-Z06

Wanna know something cool i learned...the magnetic pellet in the ignition pickup, if it pops out you have a 50/50 shot of it going back in right...and if its wrong you have no spark and get to pull it all apart again.

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Wheelhorse#1

Good work,tip and eyes Im not so sure I would've seen that small crack with my eyes.I don't own any Onan's yet ! Some people swear by them others say they have a lot of problems with them or a particular series not sure ?

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RED-Z06

Back together and running, found my spare magnetic timing reluctor.

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RED-Z06
3 hours ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

Good work,tip and eyes Im not so sure I would've seen that small crack with my eyes.I don't own any Onan's yet ! Some people swear by them others say they have a lot of problems with them or a particular series not sure ?

B series is solid.  P series...not so solid

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rmaynard
13 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

B series is solid.  P series...not so solid

I think that when Toro put their name on it, they cheapened them. 

I have a P-216 engine that I have been stripping for parts. The previous owner only bought the tractor for the ignition trigger.  If you need anything off of it, I will see what's there.

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lynnmor
2 hours ago, rmaynard said:

I think that when Toro put their name on it, they cheapened them. 

I have a P-216 engine that I have been stripping for parts. The previous owner only bought the tractor for the ignition trigger.  If you need anything off of it, I will see what's there.

I think you will find that the only difference is the logo on the screen.  The P220 is good engine with electronic ignition, but they did goof on using the plastic like flyball spacer.

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RED-Z06
40 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I think you will find that the only difference is the logo on the screen.  The P220 is good engine with electronic ignition, but they did goof on using the plastic like flyball spacer.

P220 was never the engine the B48 was unfortunately, not just the plastic spider spacer, which was a real problem, but the intake valve seats were a widespread liability.  Ive had 2 fail on me, and in 10 months if actively looking for a replacement engine, most every P220G i looked at, had low compression on the right/rear cylinder which was the most prone one to fail.  Its a problem to the extent that Onan/Cummins offered a variety of oversized seats to facilitate repairs if caught in time.

 

Thr other common failure point that all P series engines could see was the starter cracking the mounts off the block.  

 

B series had a superior starter mount on tye oil pan.  Didnt have seat issues, had metal governor spacers...their only negative was they had points...but that also meant the ignition was external...not hidden under the flywheel.

 

 

 

 

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RED-Z06
3 hours ago, rmaynard said:

I think that when Toro put their name on it, they cheapened them. 

I have a P-216 engine that I have been stripping for parts. The previous owner only bought the tractor for the ignition trigger.  If you need anything off of it, I will see what's there.

Toro Power Plus was just the decal...there was nothing Toro specific mechanically 

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