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While searching something else I came across this old thread from 2011. This is both a sad and interesting thread from the past. Gary Pond, Cecil's son, was part of it. Sure wish he stayed hanging around, but I get it. Many of the members that posted on it were a big part of this forum back in the day. It's very nostalgic to see some of those names and remember those early days of RS. This thread may have been hosted on the old Forumer site before Karl made this place permanent. I can't remember what year that was but thank you Karl ( @nylyon) for saving it if it was. The Forumer site owned ALL of the the content before Karl made ours. That's whole story just on it's own and interesting RS history. Plenty of those old threads back in the day had tons of interesting subjects and very knowledgeable people the providing that info so it's sad to see they either passed or simply moved on. If you happen come across any interesting threads from the past or know of one please post them.

Decided that painting these wheel weights was worth the effort. Now I just need to pull the front wheels and get rid of that bright white that somebody painted them with.

August 10, 1846 US Act of Congress passes establishment of the Smithsonian Institution, now the world's largest museum and research complex.

Thanks John for the post. I went thru the beginning twice. It was deferent then. Tractors were every where with lots of good meaningful posts. I guess we come a long way from how you posted pictures in photo bucket. I am glade we do not do that any more. It is well worth the $20 a year to easily post of our tractors. So many attachments and all the manuals you’ll ever need all in one spot. I would say one of the best run forums on the web.

Happy Birthday @SylvanLakeWH, we are all glad you were born.

It’s hard to swallow EB, but life in general can be at times. Roughly 4 or 5 weeks ago, our dark grey cat Bruno stayed out all night. That’s sometimes common occurrence around here, but Mrs. P and I had that eerie feeling that something happened. Momma says she finds comfort believing that he walked out of our lives and into another family’s. I on the other hand think he met his demise picking one more fight and ended up in the food chain. Either way, it’s been different but it seems like it’s been our easiest loss of any pets. Now we are down to Rooster and Lynx.

It is not the rectifier you need to be concerned about, it is the magneto if in fact your engine has a magneto.. Be sure of the ignition type and appropriate switch before you go changing anything. The R terminal in the lower left would be the correct position IF you have a battery ignition system. The two drawings you have shown are not not the same. Please check the model number and ignition type before proceeding. Your hand drawn wiring layout is for a battery system. Once we know what you are working with we can guide you through the process of eliminating the start push button.

Old posts are awesome. I run into them on a very regular basis while searching for information. Some great stuff back then. Some great stuff today too. This website has been an amazing resource for dozens of reasons.

The site is now in it's 20th year. I joined in 2007 and was maybe member 30 (I don't quite remember). At one point it was the Karl and Mike show, since they were the only two active members for a while. I believe a guy named Chris started the site before Karl took over.

Thank you ,but I don't think this 420 will ever be as nice as @cleat 's resto's. I do put a lot of effort to bring the '' ROUGH 420'S '' back to a spot in WH history but, I just can't stand looking at the abused 420 and 520's that I have seen in pictures on this GREAT Red Square forum and try to do my part to ease the pain that has been inflicted on me, Seriously . Thanks

Hi, I am Gary Pond (Cecils son who worked for Wheel Horse for many years until sold). My son Jonathon Pond, sister Constance, and I had the pleasure of visiting your annual Wheel Horse Collectors show in PA the year that Michael Martino came out with his 2nd edition of From the Horses Mouth. As my Dad was a number of years earlier, we were greatly impressed and proud to see the large gathering of the wonderfully restored old Wheel Horse tractors and owners. Michael tracked me down about 5 years before the 1st edition to see if Cecil was alive and could be contacted. He told us of the Collectors Club and the need for more accurate information. That started a long and happy relationship (friendship) between Cecil and Michael. A family member (Jonathons Mother) showed me a link to your blog. The Pond family wanted to say "Thank You" for all of the heart felt comments about Cecil, Elmer, and Wheel Horse Products. Our appreciation and respect to all Participants. The above photo shows 4th generation Jonathon Pond with a tractor that his Great-Granddad Elmer Pond designed.

Also a side note - with an unknown key switch I *NEVER* trust the stamped letters in either the fiber backing or the terminals themselves - only way to be 100% sure a switch is properly labelled is testing with a DVOM to be sure of each key position making contact with which terminals... (So I'd never recommend a used key switch if its working configuration is not known and confirmed) especially when wiring in a magneto ignition system - even a brief 12V injected to magneto wire (such as during switch transition between start and run) can smoke the ignition module. I'd start by finding a confirmed new switch for the magneto ignition system definitively replacing a 103991 magneto ignition switch , then it'll be easy enough for us to guide you on adjusting your switch plug terminals to match (and to remove packard terminals from body is fairly easy with a jeweler's screwdriver to press in the tang for removal and then pry the tang back out for re-installation) It'd also be a good chance to test your terminals to be sure they still connect firmly with switch pins (if they're internally broken you'll overheat and melt the connector, and burn the switch, among other things that can happen)

Eric, you're a good man with a big heart. I think I can imagine how bad you feel about this - I have some stories that I'm not going to tell here.... anyway, you and Trina are doing your best. Wishing a quick and "as complete-as-possible recovery" for Meeha.

First things first - Our Meeha/Mirror puppy dog is at home resting and healing. For now. She will never be "out of the woods". I haven't brought this up sooner because I couldn't find the strength for the overwhelming emotional weight. Back on the last Sunday in July we were out in the yard and forest clearing land. Felling. Cutting. Sectioning. Stacking brush. There was a tree trunk standing in the fenced backyard that's been dead for years. I had decided to slice the base so it would fall. I knew the dog was around. Well that dead trunk fell right over before I knew it.... and the very top landed on Meeha. Had I taken better precautions this would have been avoided. We brought the dog to the emergency vet and they ran some triage tests. It was determined that Meeha has a shattered right upper pelvis and possibly a chip off the top of a vertibrae between her hips. She was able to feel pressure on her feet. She wanted to walk. Just couldn't. She had good pink color in her gums and mouth which apparently tells us that she was not bleeding internally. The decision was made to let her heal at home for a few days and see how things went. ALL other life concerns came to a full stop. Trina's been home for two weeks now. Working from home most days. I help with whatever I can in the early mornings and evenings. For the first week we carried her out for "nature breaks". After that she's been slowly becoming able to walk with assistance from a towel holding her up. Meeha is healing well so far. We hope it keeps going well.

Happy Borned on Day, Jim

The battery ignition system is wired differently than the Magneto system. If you used the 103991 key switch in a battery power ignition system nothin catastrophic would happen. In fact, if a 103991 (Magneto) switch was placed in a Battery Ignition tractor. With the exception of a frustrated person wondering why nothin works the outcome would be rather harmless. In the OFF position the R and A terminals would be connected Ground, no big deal. In the RUN position the I, A and R terminals would be connected, nothing would happen but no harm would come of it. In the START position the S an I terminals would be connected, once again nothing would happen but no harm would come of it.

Evening, Came across these marketplace different state.. were they a special edition or just standard factory painted chrome hubcaps? Seller asking $40.00 for all.

The gold one's were for the 1996 50th anniversary tractors. The rest of them were in fact gray.

I had no intention of becoming a Wheel Horse enthusiast. I just wanted a strong garden tractor to be able to maneuver my stone trailer around my yard. And I remembered my neighbor's Wheel Horse tractors from my youth. Of course, once I acquired an old Wheel Horse, I immediately needed information to make it whole again and perform to my needs. I have decent mechanical aptitude and the ability to learn but lacked a quality source of information. Once I found Red Square, I was flooded with said information and an abundance of support for all of my questions. That (and my OCD) is what converted me into an enthusiast. A few of the locals hit me up for tips and knowledge now. Pretty wild. The information that is archived on this site, along with the willingness of its members to participate in problem solving, is amazing! As a bonus, just the sharing of members' enjoyment of everyday "Wheel Horsing" makes this sight a delightful place to visit!

The information shared by members past and present has contributed to a well of knowledge that we all can draw from. Without Red Square and our moderators all of that would have just gone away.

@Armadillo👍, are you sure of the year of manufacture for your ? You mentioned the 103990 and 103991 ignition switches. These are in no way interchangeable electrically. Does your engine have a battery powered ignition system or a magneto? see the illustrations below. Under the seat there should be a sticker with a model number, 21-10K801 21-10K802 or 21-10K803 will have a battery ignition system and require the 103990 key switch. Models 21-10K804 21-10K805 and 21-10K806 will be a magneto ignition and require the 103991 switch. The attached thread explains what happens if the wrong switch is used. .

HAPPPPY BIRTHDAY

Enjoy your Birthday and a member of the retirement club Jim.

https://youtu.be/erc4IeGwfjk?is=toAKT_LGXRKZfmjK I tend to like these types of songs.

Between you and Trina I'm sure she'll recover. Dogs are amazingly resiliant.

Here is the manual showing the right pedal. If you enlarge my update picture, you can see what I did. I made the pedal, real simple to make. It basically is just free floating but enough slack to keep it forward of the foot peg. I put a spacer on the inside and flat steel with a 3/4” hole and a locking collar on the outside to keep it in place.

Calls for a 103991 switch so change the wires in the connector to match the Wheel Horse diagram. I will guess the accessory and rectifier wires are reversed so the rectifier wire is grounded when the switch is turned off. I do not know why they want it grounded other than to kill any stray voltage from getting to the magneto. Do you know how to remove and install the Packard terminals from a plastic connector? The Kohler diagrams show an optional diode in the Ground-to-Kill or magneto wire. Wheel Horse did not use that option so suspect reversing the 2 wires was their solution.

LOL! This C-81 is a parts rig and I decided to strip it down today..trans will sit on a shelf as a spare but I wanted fresh fluid in it before it gets stored away.

Pardon the obvious, but that puts your rebuild at nearly 40 years old. Probably time for another one. The last one I did only lasted about 25 years so you got your money's worth for sure.

You know Trina. You know how busy she always is. I can't possibly overstate how much she's been doing to care for the dog.

Wow, that's a real shame. Things happen out of the blue. Being home, Meeha is in good hands. My daughter works part-time for a vet. She has seen a lot, and things like this are usually a 50/50 shot. Wanting to walk is a good sign. My current cat was hit by a snow plow. She was young. I said put her down, but the vet said "I'll fix her". And he did. She may have used up most of her nine lives though. I don't know how many lives a dog has, but I'm sending my good juju her way just in case there are a few more in there

I A hardy worker you are! I am SO glad to need only 15 minutes with the push mower and 25 minutes seat time to do a complete job mowing. Just as it starts to feel onerous, I’m done and can have a cold drink!

Happy birthday Randy!

Painted the footrests and side panels. Now it’s got me to thinking I need to paint the hood and fender pan.

Finished up this shed today. Still need to get a ramp setup for it but no rush on that. Yes it’s plastic and yes it was a kit (one million pieces!!) But it all fit together well and I already had the pressure treated base built and leveled, so that’s how the size was determined. It’s 10’9” x 7’xx” with a door plenty wide enough to get a tractor in if need be.

Lots of pumps at Surplus Center. Look there if interested.

Of course nice haul Looks like a huge job ahead to sort thru all that!

Garry @gwest_ca, I had never taken the time to place the two switching layouts side by side. Very interesting to a wiring geek like me. I took your information and carried it out to see what would happen if a 103991 (Magneto) switch was placed in a Battery Ignition tractor. With the exception of a frustrated person wondering why nothin works the outcome would be rather harmless. In the OFF position the R and A terminals would be connected Ground, no big deal. In the RUN position the I, A and R terminals would be connected, nothing would happen but no harm would come of it. In the START position the S an I terminals would be connected, once again nothing would happen but no harm would come of it. On the other hand, if this situation were turned around and the 102990 (Battery Ignition) switch were placed in a Magneto tractor things get a bit more interesting and a whole lot more expensive. In the OFF position none of the terminals are connected and all is well. In the RUN position the B, R, A and M terminals are connected and magic smoke will be released from the Magneto. In the START position the B, A, S and M terminals will be connected and the engine will turn over but there will be no spark because the magneto already is toast.

Gary I got to meet your Dad several years ago. We used to have a Wheel Horse dealership we ran out of are farm in Northwest Indiana. While I was young on summer vacation from school I got recruited to help assemble new tractors from the crates. One day I was busy assembling and in walked Cecil with sales rep. Guess Cecil was making the rounds to some of the dealers that day. My Granddad introduce them to me and said that he recruited me for some extra help because sales were up. Cecil then spoke up and said " Good work for the young man, helps the family out and keeps him busy in the summer." Boy did my Granddad jump on that and the next few summers and school breaks I was working at are dealership along with farm work.

A big thumbs up to History. If Americans were better schooled about History, I would think that America would not be in the trouble that we have gotten ourselves into (both parties). Spending ourselves rich, deficit spending, printing money, expanding government "make work jobs" for votes have historically never worked. Capitalism, Free Enterprise, and Small Business made America great, not Government. I pray we make it back before we kill the Golden Goose.

No new design thoughts that I was aware of. I think my Dad was pretty well burned out and ready to move on. There was a financial chrisis in the early 70's that caused one of the banks that Wheel Horse borrowed from to call their loan. Back then a bank could only lend 1 million and we had 6 million in bank loans, meaning 6 banks. When one loan was called it created a house of cards and they were all force to do the same. Wheel Horse was financially strong but not under those conditions. It took my Dad a year and a lot of Valium to pull back from the brink. My Grand Dad Elmer said, "How much is enough? This is not worth killing yourself over.....sell it." So, now you know the rest of the story.

As a kid I remember pushing a broom, making gauge wheel assemblies for cultivators, etc. I mowed lawns in the neighborhood for spending money. Cecil said I was the best test driver that they had. If I didn't break it, no one could. After coming home from "away school" at 16 years of age in early June, my Dad told me that I could report to the assembly line at 6 am for work. There went my summer at the lake plans. LOL As far as favorites. Not really, I liked them all. As a mechanically minded person, they were all interesting to me. Two summers I worked in the Engineering Department working on parts for new prototypes. Wheel Horse bought a snowmobile company and made them for several years. They bought Elect-Trac from GE and experimented with the idea of making electric tractors.........guess that made them way ahead of the current "green" movement. As a young married adult, I mowed my lawns with a Lawn Ranger and traveled for a year as a Credit Manager checking dealer floor plans. Worked a year in New England as a District Salesman for Maine, NH, VT, and Essex County in MA. Then transferred to Atlanta, GA as the SW Regional Sales Manager with a warehouse and in charge of 5 salesmen.

I was digging through my numerous boxes of show pictures & came across these...sorry that they are not clear as I took a picture of a picture to post them on here due to my scanner is on a blitz. ~Shawn~

Well Shawn, apparently your birdhouse was appreciated by Cecil as well. I was pleasantly surprised by an email today as follows: From Gary Pond: It would be wonderful if you had a shot of your signed Birdhouse, although I'd bet that you don't have birds living in there huh?

The world is a much better place for his time among us. Thank you, Mr. Pond, and may you find peace among the angels. God willing, we'll all meet there some day, and THAT will be quite the tractor show! Duff

This is my favorite picture of him. He was amazed when we lined up virtually every model he made. Look at that smile, he was like a little kid in a candy store.

I feel lucky that in 2004 at the wheelhorse show i got to meet cecil & have a conversation with him & mike martino. what a wonderfull experience. he was amased that there was so much interest in "his little tractors" rest in peace cecil & betty .

I purchased my first Wheel Horse @ 13 back in 1984 and new nothing about them except that it looked "cool". I proceeded to make a fortune cutting grass and plowing snow throughout the neighborhood. I still have the tractor (1968 Commando 8) and it is my avatar pic. I was also very fortunate to both have met Cecil and had him autograph the hood of my Commando. He and his family created what I would argue is the simpliest and most rugged tractor design EVER. With a decent set of hand tools even @ 13 I was able to maintain and repair this little gem. I will always honor his legacy and will do all I can to keep these tractors going. Thanks to the Pond family and may Cecil rest in peace. Tony Ruggiero