Jump to content
Sarge

D-180 pump coupling alignment ?

Recommended Posts

Got the coupling modified , keyway cut , new spline piece from a later model C welded into it and running into a misalignment issue . Seems like the engine is 1/2" too far forward ??

 

I need this thing tight to the front pump mount so it's got as much of the splines engaged as possible and utilizes the 3/16" wide key to take the abuse I had machined into the pump shaft (that hurt, btw) . I set the coupling within .030" of the bracket , which is where it sat before although previously someone stacked a whole lot of washers between the coupling and the engine's flywheel . Is the rubber puck perhaps backwards , somehow ??

 

59c2de033b100_20170920_1605241.jpg.4e97e1f9afea276799705b516bf0a968.jpg

 

You can see just how far it's pulling on the rubber section , bowing out the two sides attached to the engine's flywheel .

 

59c2de21ba948_20170920_1605371.jpg.0c5696dfb2fd266b69946a0866b17f5f.jpg

 

Looking closely , the black allen socket set screw holds the key in place tightly - and I mean TIGHT . I want zero movement against those splines - in my opinion that is why these things wear out too easily .

 

59c2de4ca4783_20170920_1549481.jpg.5d7cc891730cd39eb50beaf725bac709.jpgb

 

I seem to remember there are two raised portions on the rubber ring - on each side of it and there is a difference , perhaps it's the wrong direction ?

 

Any insights - bring 'em on - it's an odd 92* day here in September and I'm sure we'll pay for it next week ...ugh .

 

Sarge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sarge - The "D" series I just tore down to sell off in pieces had no washers except between bolt heads and washers, and the flex disc was turned the other way. The wheel Horse seminars I attended said to put Loctite on the splines, but I do not remember the number (grade). Yes I think the flex unit is reversed, and washers should be under the bolt heads. I'll look at my coupling after supper, but the pump end looks to me to be way too close to pump support. Afraid you will have interference.

Ron

Edited by R. L. Addison

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, flip the metal part over and it should be OK (Heh! ask me how I found out!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saved my tear down pictures, this is how it was set up on the 18 Auto.

100_1156.JPG

100_1174.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, after the rebuild, it sat the same and there wasn't a whole lot of space between. Perhaps the hockey puck is flipped? Or loosen the set screw and allow the hockey puck to relax, then tighten it back up? Granted the hockey puck is right.........

IMG_1973.JPG

The parts diagram shows the sequence, which is what I followed,"this time"! Ha ha ha! My memory isn't always enough anymore!

Manifold seals.gif

Edited by Oldman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know the bolts need one flat washer under the head - that's the standard . I suspect by som e of the other repairs done on this thing they had tried to space the coupling tighter to the pump to save the splines - which didn't work .

 

Per the photos in the Transmission Service Manual and @Oldman I have the metal section (pump end) in the correct direction . What I'm questioning is what direction does the rubber flex coupling sit since it could face either way ? There are raised bosses on the metal inserts that are vulcanized to the rubber disk - each pair of these bosses are different in length from each other depending upon which side faces the engine's flywheel .

 

I'll have to get some pics and measure the difference in those bosses - need to log back on the laptop since I can't figure out how to synchronize pics from the phone to tablet - not a fan so far .

 

Sarge

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know the coupling had the two spaced portions towards the engine and no other raised or spaced portion on the other side. Then it is the 18 Auto. Also, the manual states "molly grease", not lock-tite. Had me worried if I needed to separate them and apply lock-tite!

 

See Index 31 (Pg 28)

Sunstrand Hydro (part 1).pdf.

 

This side towards the engine

A.jpg

This side mates the driven coupling(metal) The two small raised surfaces. (Notice the wear marks from the flat washers to the coupling, that's the pair of retaining bolts too the flywheel.......)

B.jpg

 

I don't know, your coupling looks right. Maybe the set screw and keyway are too far forward, pulling the rubber? That keyway is long enough to adjust back and forth right?

Edited by Oldman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that was one of like 3 bulletins on that coupling trying to fix the failure issues . I decided to try something different - sourced a later model C series Sundstrand pulley that has a steel machined insert . Chucked that thing up in the lathe and cut the weld out , removed the insert and had it cut for a keyway - which had to be timed to the splines on the pump shaft , not an easy task for the machine shop . They had to make a jig first , cut the slot in the pump (wrecked two milling cutters) and used a wire EDM to cut the insert . I had a local friend machine out the center of the original steel section - which ate the end off a C2 lathe tool and required a C6 grade to cut it out to size . The steel center was pressed into the cast steel section for the flywheel end and welded . That required Inconel and ER80SD6 filler rod with the tig to get it to bite and not crack the weld due to shrinkage rate differences ...simple , right ?

 

59c3329ab4a12_20170811_1438011.jpg.27c27bbc00b7ca2cab2055b660785cfc.jpg

 

 

Now , after all that , the splines were far too tight - I had to re-file them by hand due to everything changing shape from the weld . It fits , and fits tightly on the key in the pump shaft's splines - should not work against those splines and destroy them over time - I hope anyway .  

 

I ran out and did some measuring on the rubber ring that was previously on the tractor . I installed a different one that I found used that was a fair amount more compliant - I'd assume they will become harder with age and exposure to the elements .

 

59c332da72778_20170920_2141451.jpg.9f14efc1742b54a0ac03c1f8b3c40f38.jpg

 

One side they protrude 1/8" -

 

59c3330fea50b_20170920_2139571.jpg.e5e03a37ad627393439a4d4a3442d39c.jpg

 

 

Other side , the inserts protrude nearly 1/2" - 3/8" difference depending upon which side is facing the engine -

 

59c3332845054_20170920_2140341.jpg.f294849e2e77f31345af90120d4c8eca.jpg

 

I see now where the problem lies - that difference allows the engine to either sit closer or further away from the pump - just depends on which way it's facing . I'll find out in the morning if I don't get called out .

 

I'll try to remember to get photos of the steel section after it was finished - that was a lot of work . I have some other avenues I can chase down to make these better , but all would involve modifications to the pump shaft itself and using an off the shelf Lovejoy coupling instead of this odd arrangement . Frankly , I'm surprised these things lasted as long as they did - that whole frame on these things flexes when you work them and that alone should destroy these couplings easily .

 

Sarge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see you have a lot of time in on this coupling issue, almost a crime to stop now? So the piece can't be moved forwards and backwards on the pump shaft? I believe you'll get it done and it'll last a very, very long time! Looks really great, nice job getting all that done.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing spent 2 weeks at the machine shop alone - their wire EDM machine went down and they had to wait on parts . Seems like the curse followed this thing wherever it went , lol...

 

Going out now to get some more pics and pull the coupling off the pump - will need the 2-jaw to get it off the shaft . It's just one of those things I want to fix once , and never again . Not to mention this thing going down is really hurting getting a lot of other work done before the cold weather hits here - I work outside for the most part .

 

Sarge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, yes I have that too, follows me around with everything! I hope you get it squared away soon. I have had a lot of issues with the 18 Auto, but too much into it to quit now. Everything has been rebuilt or replaced! Now the PTO bearing is starting to make chatter again, or the double pulley has gone dry inside? Time to do something with that next! Ha ha ha! I can't even locate a decent volt gauge, everything is junk. Might as well put a ammeter back in with a fuse to the + side.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a 2-1/16" SW volt meter - pricey but fits the bill ....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sww-82376

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sww-82391

Wings style - really sharp

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sww-82482

If you call them , they can also provide the correct light kit if you want - SW even makes them with a 2-wire harness for an isolated (non-chassis) ground .

 

I got tired of this thing taking far too much time yesterday , so I machined a pair of spacers .280" thick and 1" in diameter on the lathe . This allowed the engine's bolt holes to line up in the frame and put the coupling where I wanted it on the shaft . Not sure why everything is not fitting properly according to the way WH built it - this shouldn't have been a problem . There are a few places on the lower side panels where they have been welded , perhaps those repairs have enough effect on it - who knows ?

 

I did determine that as-stock , the rubber flex ring can only really go one way - with the 1/2" thick bosses towards the engine . Otherwise , the bolt heads in the opposite direction that fit into the steel coupling for the pump will hit the flywheel - they way they had it in there before was wrong , hence the use of washers after they chewed up two of the mounting holes in the flywheel .

 

59c50037db3da_20170921_1401401.jpg.7543867ce854c2117ba72a199833c685.jpg

 

Someone has screwed with this issue a lot in the past and evidently didn't have any of the service manuals or resources to figure it out , years ago that was typical unless you had a local dealer .

 

With the coupling faced incorrectly , I used the new spacers to make up the difference . They could go either way and will fit at the pump side or engine side - depending how I wanted the coupling oriented by using the spacers on the shorter side of the flex ring .

 

59c5008da6dfb_20170921_1359261.jpg.61f37c1b7aae606fb73ac2c5393acb81.jpg

 

Installed -

 

59c500bcb156c_20170921_1416041.jpg.bb0becb64f79be769c322e1fbe4e96b8.jpg

 

Here are the mods to the cast section of the pulley - this is one seriously hardened piece of iron and full of casting flaws which made it hard to cut - you can just make out the line where the two different part meet , it's a ring just outside of the splines . That inner part is from the later model Sundstrand - equipped C series with the steel pump pulley .

 

 

59c502ef71fdf_20170921_0854581.jpg.cdbc30a5bd873ce702a37dda0417f8e0.jpg

 

59c5090c6a838_20170720_1842391.jpg.1f0f3462e51238c79403dedb73546ce6.jpg

 

 

We had modified that steel center with the wire EDM machine to accept a 3/16" key - it had to be timed to fit the spline count on the pump shaft - hats off the Rob at Riverfront Machine in Spring Valley , Illinois for making this work . Since I'm not experienced enough with odd cast iron work , Sam Forristal who's shop is next door welded the two parts - had to use a combination of Inconel and ER80SD2 tool steel fillers to make it work .

59c5031953333_20170921_0855401.jpg.cf185ca045bca8e08c171411617cb59c.jpg a

 

This assembly fits the pump shaft quite well . That steel center turned out to be a disappointment as it's pretty soft . I'd say the better way would be to stick with the original cast part (one with perfect splines)  and just have it broached or cut for a key and add a heavy set screw to force it tight to the splines . That little tiny of bit of play between the coupling and those pump splines allows this part to destroy itself - 18/20hp engines driving that small of a shaft is a bad recipe - the torque of the K482/532 engines and no real dampener in the hydraulic system means this thing sees a potentially high shock load - over time that will strip the coupling and destroy the shaft in the process .

 

59c5088405b22_20170627_2029171.jpg.f234abac620b3ed31b9ee051c7aafa46.jpg

 

Modern couplings for shock loads use a better dampener and a clam shell design that clamps on the shaft splines - that is a far more robust setup that can take the stress . Not to mention , no one uses a shaft this small nor as short for such a high torque load - pretty much the worst part of this design . The concept of the tractor was great , but between this part and the use of a narrow rear axle housing doesn't allow it to be able to work to it's potential .But still , it's a Wheel Horse and amazingly tough - judging from the damage to the 56" plow frame I'd say it's withstood an amazing amount of abuse already in the 43yrs since it was built . I just wish there was a better modern coupling available to fit this shaft - that would cure the issue and keep these in heavy service for a long time to come .

 

I spun it on the starter last night to prime the pump . After I build the exhaust and fire it we'll see if there are any vibrations - so far it looks like it runs straight enough not to hurt it , time will tell . Now , gotta figure out where the heck I put those exhaust gaskets...long term projects make it tough to keep track of parts around here . Not taking any sort of victory lap just yet - once I get it together far enough to test everything under a load we'll find out - this has been a pretty expensive experiment but not the first around here .

 

Maybe all of this will help someone else down the road , but who knows...

 

Sarge

 

 

20170720_184239[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! That  is the most descriptive rebuild that I have seen on the forum! The final fitment is looking great. I have a 56" Blade, the frame "where it usually breaks" has been welded professionally. I say professionally because I have seen some strange welds on these machine! The Hydro Motor quit on me while using the blade, on a slope and it was wedged between the tractor and the ground! Fun getting that off that day! The spline in my pump looked almost identical to yours, minus the hole. Did you utilize the holes again too? I see the end results are far superior then the factory design. I am shocked that Wheel Horse didn't think things through, but I think also, maybe production was the issue, getting as many done and in less time? I believe your design is great, but not many people possess the skill-set, nor access to someone who does, to do that level of re-fabrication. I say it is a blessing to have a skilled machinist in your area. Having one of these tractors, fully functioning, is a true test of skill, and demands great patience, not to forget $.

100_1175.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1981 service bulletin for repair of failed driven couplings had you coat the splines with Loctite RC-680 retaining compound. ( Capital letters do not use grease) Put the driven coupling on and let it cure 24 hours.  Then connect  the rubber coupling.

 

This is a complete change from the 1978 service bulletin that called for grease.

 

 

680.JPG

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, I'd better pull those two apart and get some Loctite RC-680. I was getting confused on that issue! Thank you! Now where to get the splined washer?:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe others have tried to hunt down that splined washer to no avail - none seem to exist except possibly a used one . The hole is a common quick repair fix I did last winter - 1/4" hole and a grade 8 bolt . The splines had been spun already at that point - it wasn't going to do any further damage . I think the only true way to repair these properly is to do some serious shaft mods to that pump and the shaft would have to be removed . Either a new shaft or re-work the splined end into something larger and a bit longer to work with modern couplings that are far more robust and can handle a shock load better .

 

The real problem now is I still don't trust it to last or handle a high work load . That steel center is not a hardened part and even with a key it could wear out eventually with hard work or just from the vibration . I had considered having the machine shop completely design a new coupling and cut it to fit out of D2 steel or something , but the cost of having them plot the entire thing into cad and making the part would have been quite high . Besides , due to the shaft size - at that point you just move the failure possibility to the pump shaft itself and if that fails it could destroy the new coupling in the process .

 

It will be awhile before I even get to fire the engine and put it under a full load since I have to build the new exhaust from scratch - both of the mufflers are totally rotted out . I did get started making the exhaust flanges last night - today is fitting the tubing and extracting the last broken bolt that held the original 90* pipe system to the block .

 

I may try to write a thread on making these pipes - it's commonly available parts and maybe it can help others do some custom work....

 

One of my favorite tools - an older used Milwaukee 62 series portable band saw . I paid $60 for it and so far have only put a new set of guide rollers in it - about $20 worth of parts and the old girl runs perfect . The stand is one I built from scratch - Swag Offroad makes stands like these and have different models to fit nearly any saw made . I totally copied their design off their pics to be honest , minus their miter gauge slot .

http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-Portaband-Tables-Accessories_c_35.html

 

59c64ffe52dc4_20170922_1904511.jpg.1e496b3f20450c81e1bd917b5680b513.jpg

 

You can't beat this setup for cutting small pieces of material . I've used it to cut and shape all types of metal , wood and even rubber . Starrett blades seem to last the longest and a new blade will last an amazingly long time in comparison to other tools . They will cut some slight curves but are pretty limited to mostly straight cuts due to the 1/2" wide blade design . However , other than a larger industrial upright band saw - nothing else will cut thick materials as efficiently . I will give one word of caution - that blade will remove a finger , hand , arm or whatever in half a second and the saw doesn't care either - use a push stick or at least keep your body parts well away from that blade . I added a simple foot switch the saw plugs into - the spring clamp holds the trigger in the on position and you use the foot pedal to turn it on/off . Once the speed dial in the trigger is set to the correct speed for the blade/material to be cut - stomp the pedal and go , I love this thing .

 

59c650195a2f9_20170922_1904331.jpg.934a4ca232edab54f09fe9c7257fa8cc.jpg

 

3/8" thick plate steel - took just a few minutes to cut each one out and the parts are pretty square . I'll use the upright belt/disk sander to finish the parts off smooth and final size them . I have cut through over 2" of solid metal easily with this thing - just requires the right blade choice and proper motor speed selection . Not sure how I ever lived without it prior to building this one - being able to accurately cut small parts and not have to try to clamp them or hold stuff by hand and use other methods that risk injury is nice , I've gotten more than enough injuries over the years as it is....lol .

 

Sarge

Edited by Sarge
grammer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a great machine to have and the stand is excellent! I would love to have such a set up, we had one similar on a job I worked years ago. Nice job on the exhaust flanges! Say, don't forget to make a pair for me too! Ha ha ha! I do have a another shaft for the pump I removed, which still worked but the spline was about all.......I thought I had a bad seal on the flywheel side as oil was gathering and dropping dead center off the bottom of the engine shroud. Here it was the pipe in the block for the oil drain. It was tight but not making a seal, oil would go under the block and then work it's way around! I was dreading having to take everything all apart again! Ha ha ha! I was wondering about how long my pump and coupling will last? Sell it quick! Ha ha ha! No, just kidding. Oh, I don't like the seat bracket assembly. If I put the seat back enough to have room, it'll hit the fuel tank when driving, denting it and stuff?

I need a hoist to get off the tractor! Ha ha ha! I think the oil leak is under control.......You can see I cleaned the spot very thoroughly the paint was washed off!

(all the plumbing was made in the USA)

 

IMG_2140.JPG

 

Edited by Oldman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have the easy ride seat setup with the spring under it - tighten that adjuster down a bit and preload the spring - it will help it from hitting the fuel tank . I swear WH built almost all their equipment for no one over 5'-2" tall . I've had to modify every tractor I've owned by moving the seats back a bit and raise them a bit - otherwise my knees are doubled back way too far and these days that doesn't work .

 

No idea how well the Loctite will work - they knew they had an issue with these things but never really addressed the root of the problem - they should have had Sundstrand build a more dedicated and heavier pump design for this machine line - along with a much heavier rear axle housing . At that time , the D's were a truly revolutionary tractor historically - this was the first model to dive into the sub-compact category that could handle much heavier work . If a guy can address those two issues - the D is an animal in comparison to modern sub-compacts and much simpler built .

 

I did basically the same thing with the oil drain - mine is much longer to make it easier to dump the oil and not have to remove that heavy front blade I use it for the most .

 

Sarge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Sarge
      What started out as a simple task of moving my 6-1/2' x 12' utility trailer to unload it's contents back into the Shed Repair Project after building a new floor turned out to be a really bad day . I figured the weight of the trailer and it's load was probably around 2,500lbs or more and the big D-180 should be able to handle it . Used the 3pt hitch and an adapter to lift the trailer tongue and off I went...until I got to the end of the north drive and the pump coupling on the hydro failed - badly . In hindsight - the trailer probably weighed closer to 4,000lbs the way it felt behind the truck ...
       

       

       
      Now , the trailer had to be taken off the tractor and put on it's jack ....which didn't work out too well loaded that heavily . Since the trailer was built with 2x3 angle iron on the tongue it decided to fold itself into a pretzel - despite the wheels being blocked tight so it couldn't move . It fell over and I had to use the HI-Lift to get it off the ground . The sight of the trailer falling over in the rear view camera on the Dodge is still well embedded in my memory - I knew that was going to be another large project .
       
      The coupling had an earlier repair from last winter's failure - so a pto pin was driven through the hole to get it out back to my work area to be fixed later . It made the short trip , but just barely and the tow valve was frozen tightly . As it turned out , the damage to the D was a much bigger issue..and cost 3 times as much in total .
       
      The pic doesn't do the damage any justice - that entire tongue was bent badly -
       

       
      Sand blasted , new tongue built and waiting for paint -
       

       
      Painted , as it sits now awaiting the lights , wiring and re-install the floor decking .
       

       
       
       
      All the while - got more work done on the D's pump problem . Found a great used pump , as well as a spare coupling in good shape . After a lot of machine work ($$$) we came up with a solution and everything was back together...
       

       
      After all this I found that both the original mufflers were completely shot and falling apart - so another project ...
       
      Bought a pair of 180* mandrel bends , two cone transitions and a pair of @jimkemp 8" mufflers (very nice, btw) . Fabricated the flanges for the engine's exhaust ports , as well as the pipes for the stacks -
       

       

       

       
      Spent a lot of time rolling the engine over on the starter to slowly prime the pump back up and finally , after several months - fired Big Ugly to test the exhaust before painting the stacks . No leaks from the hydro thanks to some new o-rings and backer rings from @pfrederi on the hydro manifold , that was a big relief .
       
      A bit shocked at the sound of the big opposed twin - somewhat like a Harley running on the choke or something - but overall not obnoxious or too loud ....
       
      D180 startup.mp4
       
      If you don't want to wait for the MP4 to load - here's the YouTube link -
       
       
       
      I don't think the camera's microphone will show the sound too well , but so far I like it . Took a ride around the block , nice having this beast back up and running , finally . Now to finish that dumb trailer....pretty much wasted nearly the whole summer getting all of this done plus the hours at work . I'm about ready for a break but need to get ready for winter .
       
      Sarge
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By DanKepple
      Text me anytime my phone doesn't ring so if i dont answer leave a message and ill get back to you. I have everything except steering wheel, front axel and wheels, seat, engine,3pt hitch and rear pto. This was a single cylinder 16hp kohler. I have the clutch assembly, hood, grill, grill housing, rear end (it leaks believe it just needs to be sealed again), gas tank ( has a slight leak very sure it can be patched),mule drive, hydrolic controls, mid lift, attach-amatics, dash board with controls and ignition, steering shaft and afew other things. Text me any time after 8 am and before 10 pm. This was a running, driving tractor a month ago rear end has been gone through was told it works rolled it around the garage it seems fine has some fluid and new filter. I would like to keep the rear wheels if possible. It has brand new tires on the back i will be swapping for different style tires when i swap them i will gladly sell the tires.  Text me for pics. 
      Still working on pricing as i just got it all apart. 
      Attach-amatics-$15 ech or $20 for both
      grill-$15
      grill housing w/ lights- $25
      hood-$20
      rear end- $100 
      steering shaft w/ whats left of linkage-$40
      mid lift- $30
      hydrolic contols- $30
      clutch assembly- $70
      gas tank-$30
      dash-$30
       
      these prices do not include shipping.
      will trade all thats left for a c160. 
      Theres a few more items not listed
       
       
       
    • By WVHillbilly520H
      While taking the family out for Mother's Day lunch I spied this  ,sitting in front of a L&G small engines shop (of course I got the you're crazy and I need help bit, because it was close to a 100 yards across the road at 35+ MPH that I spotted it amongst all the other lawn equipment) D series with an Ark 550 loader, maybe later this week after I get off work I'll go back a get a little bit more info on this WH, Jeff.




    • By Sarge
      Ok , been asked a lot of questions about how I rebuild front axles - unless they are physically broken no axle is really past the wear point of being rebuildable .
       
      I'm starting with an early D series front axle and upgrading to a later model D series 1" spindle type with the heavier casting . Since I could never find any pics of a comparison - here we go....
       

       
       
      If you look closely - there is an obvious difference in the castings at the spindle end - the later model axles were thicker and larger diameter to accept the heavy duty 1" spindles. Later model (post '75 , I believe).
       

       
       
      This photo really shows the obvious difference in diameter - early models were much smaller and a thinner casting for the early 3/4" only spindles . Need to find someone with a tape measure and one of the oddball early D-200 1" spindle equipped tractors to find out if those were a thin casting or the thicker type .
      The machined relief is for the roller thrust bearings that were originally used - if you ever buy a D or I believe the 520's , this is the first thing to check as many were never properly greased and destroyed that bearing . This can really wreck an expensive spindle and make it more difficult to rebuild the axle casting itself . I will be re-machining these reliefs to mimic the factory design to keep dirt out and retain the grease inside the bearing .

       
       
      Early castings , at least on this 18 Auto or D-180 that I have (missing the stupid id tag completely) measures roughly 1-1/2" outside ...

       
      Later model upgraded casting is a whole different animal - there are major differences in how they were cast and not just at the spindle ends . Later models were 1-3/4" on the outside .

       
       
      Since I've never seen a new old stock replacement I'm not certain as to the original finish quality of the machining on these things - it is obvious that over time dirt has entered and a lack of proper grease results in the bores being worn badly - some are literally egg-shaped , especially tractors from the late 60's with high hours and heavy use . Snowblowers and other heavy front implements of course accelerate this wear issue - I'm out to cure that and make the unit more serviceable .
       
      The biggest , #1 problem with these is how they are greased . I've bought and sold tractors for years and had some that had huge grease balls around the spindles , inside the wheels and all over the front end . At least they were trying but the wear is almost no different than one that was seriously neglected . With the weight on the spindle , the grease is forced upward and exits at the E-clip at the top , never lubricating the bottom where it rides on the spindle base for the steering arm .
       
      The correct way to grease these things is to lift the tractor BY THE FRAME , NOT THE AXLE ITSELF . Also , do not lift it by the front mule quick attach - you will bend the cross rod for the latch and destroy it . Best way is to use a block on the frame itself or make a spreader to fit the jack , maybe I can take the time to get pics to show better ways to pick these things up since they aren't exactly lightweight ...lol .
       
      No make or brand was exempt from this issue , they all did it . The problem becomes parts availability - there are only so many parts left and finding good spindles and axles is becoming a serious problem . Some brands aren't too bad (such as the green ones) since they still support most of their older models . Unfortunately for us - Toro has chosen to drop these parts and stock is quite limited . I got really lucky and a parts dealer friend had a pair of NOS 1" D series spindles , one of the last pair to exist to my knowledge . Those are getting blueprinted and angles mapped for later - I may tackle making new ones in both the 3/4" and 1" versions . I believe with a little engineering the earlier models made in the 60's could use a sort of generic spindle since there little difference in the many models - it was mostly down to the axle's angles and width .
       
      My D will be upgraded to heim joints for the steering . Many of the tie rod and drag link ends are NLA and finding steering arms that don't have the tapered holes wallowed out is getting pretty tough . The low angle taper on those automotive style ends allows them to work loose despite having fine thread castle nuts and cotters - the force required to turn the wheels due to the above mentioned lubrication issues , combined with a gear reduction Ross type steering box makes the holes in the arms wear - I've seen 4 of these spindles on different D's all worn the same way with the tapered factory holes oval in shape and the shanks on the rod ends could be easily turned with a wrench, which should not be possible .Converting to heims is not too hard and less expensive in the long run - the only issue being the left hand threaded rod ends at the steering bell crank (or idler arm) . Since it sits so close to the underside of the frame and being tight quarters we may have to resort to using a reduced size heim joint which are easily obtained if you know the part number systems . I have a NOS pair of factory rod ends (ball joints in the parts manual) so this one won't be getting this upgrade for now .
       
      The factory bell crank is subject to wear like everything else . It's buried up under the engine and I suspect most were neglected being so hidden . Inside is a steel bushing riding on the cast iron bore of the bell crank . The retaining bolt , bushing and iron casting all get worn - which results in sloppy steering . On a D that's a real problem since their turning radius is huge to begin with . I've modified mine slightly by moving the turning arc point of the drag link inward by 3/8" - when it's done I'll test and measure the turning radius to see how much it helped and if there is any interference or other issues . Models with working turning brakes in either the stock D-200 or kit-equipped smaller models of course helped when in dirt or grass - just never use those on pavement or hard surfaces since it can really bind things up and possibly cause rear axle damage . It's all mentioned in the manual and instructions for the kits to add turning brakes .
       
      Not sure yet if I'll just make a separate thread on the steering parts or include them here - plenty of info to make a long thread on the cast iron axle alone . Depending upon how well it works out I may offer this as another service to the long list of other parts I build or rebuild currently . Guy with a lathe , far too many tools and a TIG welder must stay busy during the long winters....lol .
      So far, it hasn't been a cheap venture - tooling bits and parts totals are well over $400 and climbing - haven't really started any machine work on the axle as of yet since I'm still waiting on one tooling bit . I will try to document what is used in the rebuild and a parts list as well as sources . All bushings and bearings used will be off the shelf parts so it's nothing that isn't easily available . Lathe work my be required to avoid using custom ordered parts and their associated extra costs .
       
      Anyhow , more to follow....
       
      Sarge
       
      Going forward
    • By chrisog
      Can anyone help me figure out how I can get a replacement (new) starter for a 1974 D200?  I'm not sure how I cross-reference from an old part number to a new replacement (if there is one).  Thanks in advance for any guidance.
      Chris
×