Black wire to front of HH100?

[Dan693 510]

I am putting all new wiring on a 1970 WH Raider 10 with a Tecumseh HH100. The only question I have right now is the wiring diagram shows a black wire from letter M on the ignition switch going around the front of the engine but doesn't say what or how it connects. Any help is appreciated.

FYI....the old setup had no such connection but also would not shut off the engine with the key switch.......related?

[KC9KAS 4,741]

@Dan693 1st of all  and 2nd of all...

 

I think the black wire from the ignition switch terminal "M" goes to the magneto of the engine.

The other 2 wires from the engine go to the voltage regulator.

Per this document.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/1835-tractor-1970-raider-10-12-da-om-wiring-snpdf/

 

 

[N3PUY 1,031]

The black wire from "M" goes to the "M"agneto.   It connects to the terminal on the points.   It's required to shut the motor off with the key.

[Francismac 0]

I know am a little late to these posts, but did Dan 693 get the black wire attached and running. I have a Raider 10 with HH100 motor, no spark, magneto is attached to engine block ground and at that connection black wire back to switch. Makes no sense to me............have not disconnected yet to check for spark, but am guessing someone wire this wrong. The ignition switch has the M grounded on shut off, and the magneto connection must need to be open to run, correct?

Edited April 2, 2018 by Francismac

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

That is correct. Magnetos are self powered and when the points are grounded the engine stops. Not grounded it should run.

The point contacts will get an invisible corrosion on them that insulates the current flow when they are closed. Polish them up and it will likely run.

 

Garry

[AndyZ 5]

Hi all,

 

I'm a new member here because today I was gifted this 1970 Raider 10 with Solid State Ignition and Electric PTO from a family friend who had it since new and kept it inside always! I'm beyond thrilled and it's making my holiday happy!

 

She had some work done on it a couple of years ago and since then it has never run properly. They had replaced the ignition switch, choke cable and throttle cable from what I can tell. She had to fiddle with the ignition switch quite a bit to get it to start, cranking it and then quickly turning it back to run while the engine was turning over before it would start. Well, today when I got it home I dug into the wiring and found that the ignition switch wiring was a mess. The first thing I noticed was that I believe they installed the wrong switch for a magneto system - my clue was the switch had an "I" instead of an "M" terminal. The magneto wire was tied to the Start wire which is why I assume it would crank but not catch while cranking (because it was feeding 12V into the magneto). Then if she switched it to Run while the engine was turning over it would sometimes start. Sheesh. That's what I think was happening but if any of you more experienced folks have an opinion I would love to hear it.

 

I also noticed that the rectifier was disconnected at the plug - I plugged it back in and assume that it was charging unregulated previously.

 

After spending time with the forum and manuals here, I rewired the "wrong" ignition switch and then just left the magneto wire off. Garry's post above really put me on the right track. BAM! She started right up and ran nicely. I am able to kill the engine for now by choking it fully.

 

So here is my question: Rather than acquiring the proper switch which would connect the Magneto wire to ground at Off - can I just install a toggle switch as a Kill switch to connect the magneto to ground when powering down?

 

Thanks for your help. I'm really looking forward to having some fun with my new Raider!

 

Happy Holidays,

Andy Z

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by AndyZ

[Herder 2,354]

  Nice WH.  You may find it easier in the long run to install the correct key switch.  Someone here could help you identify the proper one.  

[oldredrider 2,547]

Yes, you can use a toggle switch to kill fire to the motor. That tractor deserves the proper switch though!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

Just as a matter of interest there was something else wrong also. The magneto coils will last about 1 nanosecond if they see any battery voltage. The mag wire connected to the solenoid wire should have fried the coil instantly so another problem prevented that.

 

Garry

[AndyZ 5]

Thanks Garry. I wondered about that after reading all the posts about burning up the magneto if it sees any voltage. All I can say is that I unwound all the tape and wire nuts etc from the previous owners nightmare and plugged in (to the incorrect ignition switch): solenoid, rectifier, battery; and left the magneto wire off. Then she started right up and ran beautifully.

 

I did find a Stens switch that I think should work: Stens 430-662 Ignition Switch, Replaces Kohler 25 099 37-S. Replaces OEM: Kohler 25 099 02, 25 099 04-S, 25 099 32-S, 25 099 37-S Toro 103991. Fits Models: Kohler CH11, CH12. 5, CH14, CH18, CH20, CH22, CH25, CV12. 5, M8, M10, M12, M16, M18, M20, TH16 and TH18. The Stens page is https://www.stens.com/430-662-ignition-switch

It's less than $13 delivered on Amazon.

 

I searched the forums and didn't find any definitive posts that say the 103991 and clones will or won't work. It seems to be a drop-in from a fit and functionality point of view, and I'm good with a VM to check function before installing. In your opinion, would that one work?

 

Thanks again to all,

Andy Z

Edited December 22, 2019 by AndyZ

[pfrederi 17,147]

If it has a terminal marked M it will work.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,499]

You might consider a 5-wire connector body to hold the wires at the 103991 switch. There is a picture of one here. An extra wire is required for the ground terminal on the switch. Click on the picture.

Garry

[AndyZ 5]

Thanks Garry. It makes sense to add the reliability of a wired ground. It's only a few dollars more and that's the way I'll go.

[AndyZ 5]

OK, I'm on a steep earning curve getting to know my new beast. I was wondering about Garry's comment that the magneto should instantly burn out after seeing 12V and this machine was seeing it for a long time before I disconnected the black "M" wire from the "I" terminal on the incorrect switch. It is running fine now with the black wire disconnected and just ran for an hour or so dragging logs. In the course of searching more, I found this post (https://www.mytractorforum.com/threads/correct-spark-plug-gap-and-flywheel-gap.548658/) on MyTractorForum where someone was struggling to understand the SSI too. 

 

In my ignorance I thought a SSI meant that I had a magneto-based system. Apparently that is not necessarily true - this can be a SSI run off a triggering electronic board and not a magneto. So perhaps that is why seeing 12V on the black "M" line did not flame out the (not-there) magneto, and perhaps the SSI board is not so sensitive to seeing 12V. Does that sound correct to you more knowledgeable folks? Please fire at will, I want to learn.

 

Should I still be looking to get an 103991 ignition switch with the "M" terminal (switch to ground at OFF) rather than an "I" terminal (switch to 12V on RUN)?

 

Thanks so much!

Andy Z

Edited December 22, 2019 by AndyZ

[pfrederi 17,147]

Use the M style ignition switch.  The SSI runs off a part of the stator.  you should download the tecumseh engine manual  here for a full explanation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[953 nut 51,721]

Here is a simplified generic wiring diagram which uses the 103-991 switch. It should help you understand where the wires go and what connects to what.