formariz 11,849 #1 Posted January 5, 2016 This is the third belt this last year on this deck. I have changed one pulley and the idler. The other two pulleys have nothing on them that would cause this. The same thing happen to first belt in beginning of season before I made any changes. After changes same thing is happening to belts. They all look exactly the same. Everything is aligned, and turn freely. Just driving me nuts. Any ideas as to what is causing it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elcamino/wheelhorse 9,046 #2 Posted January 5, 2016 What brand of Belt's are you using ? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #3 Posted January 5, 2016 First two were original Toro. After second one got tired of spending that much since it was probably going to happen again so I got a generic brand. All three look exactly alike. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #4 Posted January 5, 2016 Tried a kevlar belt yet? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #5 Posted January 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, AMC RULES said: Tried a kevlar belt yet? Actually the one that came with deck was a Kevlar belt and looked the same way. I got deck with a C125 that sat for many years, so the first thing I did was to change it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheesegrader 433 #6 Posted January 5, 2016 From the look of your belts, I wonder if your drive pulley is spinning on a belt that is not moving. Check you spindles/bearings. One (or more) of them may be shot, causing the belt to stop. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #7 Posted January 5, 2016 If one looks close to the areas where a section is missing, and there are about 8 or so in the whole belt, one notices that they are about all the same length and have polished round ends and a polished bottom. It almost looks as if belt stopped and blades kept turning ,therefor pulley burning the belt in that area. I just don't see how that could happen. As it is being used it cuts perfectly without any obvious noises or smells. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,682 #8 Posted January 5, 2016 Could one of the pulleys in the system be bent or have a pinch point that causes the belt to jerk as it goes through? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elcamino/wheelhorse 9,046 #9 Posted January 5, 2016 Are all the spindles 90 degrees in relation to the deck surface? If one is not straight it maybe causing the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #10 Posted January 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, 953 nut said: Could one of the pulleys in the system be bent or have a pinch point that causes the belt to jerk as it goes through? Checked all of above, all pulley surfaces are smooth originally the two qestionable ones were changed. All three pulleys are aligned and spindles are perpendicular to deck. Deck shell is also straight and not twisted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WNYPCRepair 1,875 #11 Posted January 5, 2016 43 minutes ago, cheesegrader said: From the look of your belts, I wonder if your drive pulley is spinning on a belt that is not moving. Check you spindles/bearings. One (or more) of them may be shot, causing the belt to stop. I'm thinking one is randomly seizing, then starting to turn again, but you would think the belt would smoke. 38 minutes ago, formariz said: If one looks close to the areas where a section is missing, and there are about 8 or so in the whole belt, one notices that they are about all the same length and have polished round ends and a polished bottom. It almost looks as if belt stopped and blades kept turning ,therefor pulley burning the belt in that area. I just don't see how that could happen. As it is being used it cuts perfectly without any obvious noises or smells. My original thought was something was slicing them, due to the small cuts that seem to match the edges of the missing parts. Do the belts look melted, burned, etc? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,774 #12 Posted January 5, 2016 Does the belt feel hot to the touch after cutting? Could a spindle bearing be getting tight after some run time. Could be tensioner not be releasing causing the PTO to be trying to engage the belt when it's not supposed to be? Just trying to cover all the bases here. I would find it unlikely that the blades would coast that much to wreck a belt in that short of time. I take it there are not blade brakes on your deck? Maybe you could walk beside it while someone is cutting to see if anything funky is going on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #13 Posted January 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said: I'm thinking one is randomly seizing, then starting to turn again, but you would think the belt would smoke. My original thought was something was slicing them, due to the small cuts that seem to match the edges of the missing parts. Do the belts look melted, burned, etc? Only the missing areas look like the result of some kind of abrasion. Then you have all of these strange "cracks". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,774 #14 Posted January 5, 2016 I can speak for all of here that that's a big 10-4 on seeing that happen to a belt....just not on three quality belts in a year. ..somethins gotta be rotten in Denmark so to speak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,611 #15 Posted January 5, 2016 IDEAS: 1) remove the belt and run each spindle with an electric drill at full speed (with socket to fit top nut). They should NOT bind at all. 2) Test action of the SPRING TENSIONER and the IDLEY PULLEY. if the spring is TOO LOOSE, belt will drag and burn. 3) Dirt / debris accumulated under the pulleys? ? ? ? 4) A low-quality belt will not withstand the 'back-bending' that an OEM belt is designed for. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terry M-(Moderator) 2,125 #16 Posted January 5, 2016 Are you maybe driving too fast through the grass while cutting? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,770 #17 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) It looks like the belt is hitting the bottom of one of the pulleys instead of on the sides. Is it possible one of the pulleys is too wide for the belt you are using? Did you check the very bottom of the pulleys for a burr? Edited January 5, 2016 by ekennell 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terry M-(Moderator) 2,125 #18 Posted January 5, 2016 15 hours ago, Terry M said: Are you maybe driving too fast through the grass while cutting? Cas , I just thought of this because it was happening to me on an old Bolens tractor I once cut grass with. Belt would intermittently stop in the taller thicker grass and the belts would end up looking like your pics above. Kinda weird how you can't find the "smoking Gun "..... although I think the guys above probably will be right.. Just my 2 cents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498 #19 Posted January 5, 2016 The cords that give the belt it's strength appear to be very close to the back side of the belt. Usually they are closer to the center for a belt that is designed to bend backwards over a flat idler pulley. Garry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #20 Posted January 5, 2016 54 minutes ago, gwest_ca said: The cords that give the belt it's strength appear to be very close to the back side of the belt. Usually they are closer to the center for a belt that is designed to bend backwards over a flat idler pulley. Garry This one is a generic brand belt. However the first two were the correct Toro genuine belts and yes they were different in the aspect that the reinforcing cord was at about the center. Nevertheless the same thing happened, the second one actually lasting much less than the others. 5 hours ago, ekennell said: It looks like the belt is hitting the bottom of one of the pulleys instead of on the sides. Is it possible one of the pulleys is too wide for the belt you are using? Did you check the very bottom of the pulleys for a burr? Never paid attention to that actually since although first two were correct and genuine Toro belts. I am going to check that tonight. 1 hour ago, Terry M said: Cas , I just thought of this because it was happening to me on an old Bolens tractor I once cut grass with. Belt would intermittently stop in the taller thicker grass and the belts would end up looking like your pics above. Kinda weird how you can't find the "smoking Gun "..... although I think the guys above probably will be right.. Just my 2 cents That condition would not really happen here. I have a highly "manicured" lawn which is cut at least twice a week. I also cut it relatively slow so I get a good quality cut going over it a second time at a different angle. (I know i got issues, but it also is one of the few times I got a legitimate excuse to be riding tractors so I have to make the most of it.) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #21 Posted January 5, 2016 18 hours ago, daveoman1966 said: IDEAS: 1) remove the belt and run each spindle with an electric drill at full speed (with socket to fit top nut). They should NOT bind at all. 2) Test action of the SPRING TENSIONER and the IDLEY PULLEY. if the spring is TOO LOOSE, belt will drag and burn. 3) Dirt / debris accumulated under the pulleys? ? ? ? 4) A low-quality belt will not withstand the 'back-bending' that an OEM belt is designed for. All but #1 have pretty much been ruled out. I will try that one tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,928 #22 Posted January 5, 2016 Don't forget the mule drive pulleys and bearings. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elcamino/wheelhorse 9,046 #23 Posted January 5, 2016 Squonk, that was what I was thinking , A small twig got caught in the mule drive and messed up the belt , bits and pieces of the belt dropped to the deck and ate the deck belt up in chunks. Also had a problem where I was sold an automotive belt in error and it did not last anytime. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,849 #24 Posted January 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, squonk said: Don't forget the mule drive pulleys and bearings. That belt never has a problem. Its only the one that drives blades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,611 #25 Posted January 5, 2016 IDEAS: (5) Are the 3 blades sharp? ? ? MAYBE....if blades are dull, the belt would have to work much harder to spin the pulleys, possibly leading to belt drag / burn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites