Good Battery Suggestion?

[boovuc 1,090]

Does anyone who has the privilege of owning a 3 AMP unregulated charging system in a WH have a suggestion for a battery brand that has lasted a while?

Judging by the Johnson Company Wal-Mart sold batteries I have, these are not a real good unit to use in an unregulated power supply.

I don't need or particularly want a big battery in my 310-8 but it would be nice to get three years or more from one before it starts over-charging.

 

Thanks,

[JamesBe1 80]

Hi BooVuc,

 

There are probably a couple of rough service batteries that you can purchase, but they are going to be real expensive.  I can't name any particular brands, but if you look around the internet, they can be found.

The rest of the common batteries on the market are all engineered to have average lifetimes of about 3 - 6 years.  They are designed to sulfinate and short.  Planned obsolescence at it's best (or worst).

 

Too bad they took NiFe batteries off of the market.  They were good for many decades.

 

Also, if you want, you can cut the top off of you case (be careful, it's got lots of H2SO4) and clean the bottom of the sulfination.  I've heard of people increasing the height of the case to give he battery more time before the gunk on the bottom shorts out the plates.  It's not something to be attempted by the average weekender.

[boovuc 1,090]

I work with enough Sulfuric Acid at work. I don't need to play with it at home. Besides, I'm already not the most handsome creature in my part of the universe.

I bought a TSC battery yesterday. We'll see how long it lasts in this 3 amp circuit.

Thanks!

[Wishin4a416 2,186]

I was wondering the same thing. If my Autozone and Tractor supply Batteries arnt gonna cut it, which brand to switch to.

And the best part is I made a package deal when I bought the 310 and have to pick up my 414 which is unregulated too from what I read.

And a few years ago someone told me there was an additive to put in a new battery to make it last longer.

Any truth in that anyone know?

[squonk 38,929]

I was going to suggest an Odyssey motorcycle battery. I had one on my Goldwing. Glass mat. High cranking amp and last 5-7 yrs in bike service.

[dsholler 54]

I would not suggest using a glass mat battery in the tractor, even with the regulator. I know that for marine applications where glass mat and gel cell batteries are used a lot these days, you need to have a special regulator that has specific settings for these batteries, because they have different charge absorbtion rates and need different overcharging/float charging voltages to stay good. I suspect if you use one of these you will either fry it in short order, or you will never be able to fully charge it. There was a discussion of this in another thread on overcharging. You could, of course,  get one of the (very expensive) marine regulators that are programmable for the different battery types, and hook it up to your charging circuit.

[JackC 616]

I have multiple wheel horse tractors each with a battery that does not last.  Batteries like to be used and recharged often.  It would be nice to have a portable modular battery set up so you could take the same batter module and just plug it into the machine you are currently using.  If you have multiple machines with batteries you would only need one battery module which would get used and recharged often to extend its life.  One way to do it would be to design a case about the size of a battery that is cabled to the machine but also has a removable center battery module that could be unplugged and plugged into a similar case in another machine.  If the case was on the exterior of the machine instead of under the hood that would be even more convenient.

[JamesBe1 80]

I wonder how difficult it would be to add a regulator to one of the unregulated systems.  I know it may offend the purists here, but from a pragmatic point of view, it would sure save on batteries.  Also, I don't think that adding a regulator would be such a major addition to the system, that it couldn't easily be removed for authenticity's sake.

 

I have been learning about alum batteries lately (see John Bedini's work).  I found a battery that I thought would work, but it turned out to be past the point of salvage.  I have a couple of other batteries that I might try converting over.  I ordered a bunch of alum this morning, and if it arrives by the weekend, I might try converting another battery.

 

Does anyone here have any experience with alum battery conversions?

[wheeledhorseman 573]

Boo, it's not difficult to build a 'shunt regulator' out of a few electronic components to prevent the voltage rising above 14v. However, the unregulated system on the 310-8 was not the real culpret here - see my last post in your charge issue thread.

 

James, I'll have to do some more reading on the Alum battery stuff but the impression I initially got was that you can't use a battery that's on it's last legs anyway and I suspect you really need to use a high quality new lead acid battery to be assured of results, you've got to use the right alum salt etc. At present I'll leave that one to somebody else but it would make an interesting thread - perhaps someone on the forum has tried already.

 

Andy

[JamesBe1 80]

Boo, it's not difficult to build a 'shunt regulator' out of a few electronic components to prevent the voltage rising above 14v. However, the unregulated system on the 310-8 was not the real culpret here - see my last post in your charge issue thread.

 

James, I'll have to do some more reading on the Alum battery stuff but the impression I initially got was that you can't use a battery that's on it's last legs anyway and I suspect you really need to use a high quality new lead acid battery to be assured of results, you've got to use the right alum salt etc. At present I'll leave that one to somebody else but it would make an interesting thread - perhaps someone on the forum has tried already.

 

Andy

 

Boo, sorry for hijacking your thread. 

 

Andy, you might find this intriguing:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ihOxdKiYmo&feature=youtu.be

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYIhZvDDkaU&feature=youtu.be

 

Here's a link to the thread:

 

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10700-alum-conversion-lead-acid-batteries.html

[boovuc 1,090]

No need to be sorry. No hijacking occurred. It's all related! :< )

I wonder what the old Geo Metros came with back in the day. I jumped a completely dead Metro at the plant using the battery off of our Industrial Strength pressure sprayer. It cranked it over well enough to start it but it also may have had the compression of a sandwich bag too. The Metro's battery was small and was factory and would have fit in a garden tractor. Top mounted posts also. Your right in batteries lasting longer on use rather than sitting with infrequent starts.

[wheeledhorseman 573]

It's so difficult to know what to recommend, partly because my interest in GTs only started less than three years ago. My first resto, the C-120 Auto had the battery leads converted by a PO to the type that fit round posts on an automotive battery. When I completed the resto found that the size of battery fitted to my classic Mini also fitted into the battery tray so that's what I fitted. It's designated type here in the UK is 038 - which is a 35 amp-hour capacity. The one I purchase was mid price range with a respectable name and its in its third season with no signs of any issues. The tractor gets used for about 25 hours each year and, although I promise myself to keep all the tractors batteries charged during winter, the reality is that they get one top-up charge.

 

My C-100 is now in its second season and is fitted with a quality GT battery which was no cheaper than the auto battery I got for the C-120. It has similar hours use annually and also one top-up charge over winter so in the long term it will be interesting to see which lasts longer. My money's on the auto battery with its bigger plates and higher cranking amps but I could be proved wrong as is often the case.

 

The restored D-200 has a seemingly indestructable battery on it. To explain - it's a battery I bought at a car boot sale very cheap perhaps six years ago. It was 'used condition' and was from what is refered to over here as a 'mobility scooter' - tiny four wheeled electric buggy used by the disabled to get to the shops etc. It's a sealed type, probably AGM technology and about 35 - 40 amp-hour capacity but I'm not certain, and designed for deep cycling on a daily basis. Now this battery has sat on or under my bench for six years or more, been used to test things from time to time, and been given perhaps a once a year charge. This season it has found a home on the D and cranks it like a new battery. I'm not sure how it will fair with the Kohler Rectifier Regulator charging system as it's too early to tell but as it owed me nothing it seemed a sensible use for it. Who knows, it could yet go on to outlive the others.

 

Cranking amps isn't the be all and end all of GT batteries though. For a season on my 316-8 I was using a small (perhaps 15 amp hour) AGM battery intended for UPS applications. I was given it 'new' by a friend as it was past its shelf life and was going to be sent for scrap at the place he works. The Onan cranked at normal speed, started and ran fine with the voltmeter never over 14 volts though, as with the Kohler engines, the regulator device wasn't really designed with AGM or Gel batteries in mind. A season on the 316 didn't kill it but now the 316 has the GT battery that came with the A-800 and the A-800 is having the UPS battery. I doubt very much it will survive long on a Techy 3 amp unregulated charging system but it owes me nothing and I intend to build a regulator to at least give it a fighting chance.

 

Sorry for this lengthy ramble and that, in a way, it will be a couple of years before I can provide feedback from the various 'experiments' that are in place at the moment. I don't have a Gel type in any of the tractors at the moment as I haven't come by one at next to no cost to try out. I do have a mil spec gel type in my classic mini - dont ask how I came by that but it's designed to be charged by a standard alternator (14 volts or there abouts) and seems to be going on beyond the normal life expectancy of a standard 'flooded' type. Reassuring to know that the military occasionally get something good for the money they spend.

 

Andy

[tunahead72 2,341]

I'm partial to Interstate batteries these days, been having very good luck with them (at least when I remember to take them out for the winter and keep them charged).

 

There's several other threads on this topic, here's one of my favorites:

 

Somewhere on RedSquare there's also an entertaining series of lessons from SOI (Save Old Iron) about how to choose a battery, and why more cold cranking amps is not necessarily better.  I'm too tired to go looking for it right now...

[JamesBe1 80]

I'm partial to Interstate batteries these days, been having very good luck with them (at least when I remember to take them out for the winter and keep them charged).

 

There's several other threads on this topic, here's one of my favorites:

 

Somewhere on RedSquare there's also an entertaining series of lessons from SOI (Save Old Iron) about how to choose a battery, and why more cold cranking amps is not necessarily better.  I'm too tired to go looking for it right now...

 

I liked Ians quick disconnect battery connectors from that thread.  I just ordered a couple of pairs and some flag to post adaptors.  It should make life a little easier with installing and removing batteries.  Now, if I can just find a quick release battery tie down . . .

[Fordiesel69 214]

A friend of mine shorts his within the free replacement warranty as it will fail one complete year after.  Thats one way to counteract the planned obselecense. 

 

I seem to get 5 yrs out of mine and I use Deka maint free.  I always allow my engines to start fast, and if it doesn't I put it on a 2 amp slow charger to recover instead of letting the tractor do it.  The older starter generators are the worst as the batteries never recover in time. 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

 

A friend of mine shorts his...

 

You mean he intentionally shorts the battery out in order to fail it so he can get a replacement?

 

I'm not going to go into the ethics here, as my own are less than stellar...  but...

 

Do he and you know how dangerous it is to short out a lead acid battery?  Just sayin... for safety sake.

[JamesBe1 80]

 

 

A friend of mine shorts his...

 

You mean he intentionally shorts the battery out in order to fail it so he can get a replacement?

 

I'm not going to go into the ethics here, as my own are less than stellar...  but...

 

Do he and you know how dangerous it is to short out a lead acid battery?  Just sayin... for safety sake.

 

 

Lol, I had the same thought too. 

 

But then again, intentionally engineering a battery that will fail after a period of time just so you can get rich off the profits, kinda sorta balances out the ethical dilemma.

 

The safety issue is an excellent point.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

 

But then again, intentionally engineering a battery that will fail after a period of time just so you can get rich off the profits, kinda sorta balances out the ethical dilemma.

 

Good point!  ha ha ... yeah, two can play at that game!

 

I have witnessed LA batteries explode.  well, not completely explode, but they blow the caps off and spew acid all over the place.

 

It is NOT something humans want to be near when it happens!