416-H charging issue

[JerryLook 73]

I have a 416-H with the Onan P216 engine. Seems like it isn’t charging. My battery is 12.05 vdc with the tractor off, and 11.96 vdc with the engine running. This is measured at the battery with a DMM. 

Checking the voltage from the starter to the negative battery terminal gets the same 11.96 vdc. So I don’t think it’s a voltage regulator issue. 

Here’s the wiring diagram. Basically the stud on the starter where voltage comes from the batt also has the wire that goes to the V-reg. That’s where I’m checking the voltage. That stud to ground on the battery. 
 

 

[squonk 39,292]

Clean the mounting area of the regulator and retry.  Lots of issues with the Onan regulators and grounding.

[johnnymag3 2,451]

Add a ground wire for the regulator, the above Squonk reply is a GOOD one !!!!

 

John

Edited May 31, 2022 by johnnymag3

[peter lena 8,166]

@JerryLook  run a additional light  ground cable from ,the battery ground bolt down point to  that bolt down point  on regulator, or give a try first with alligator clip test lead, if it improves you are on track . have that hooked up to my engine to frame and in turn to my engine cooling tins , and on to headlights , taillights , been solid and no issues since , pete   

[JerryLook 73]

Ok. I took the connections off the v-reg and cleaned them. I also took the bolt out and cleaned that up as well. After that I get .9 ohms continuity between the v-reg case and the negative battery terminal. Still no charge. 
 

I hooked up a jumper from the v-reg bolt to the negative battery terminal and still no charge. 

[JerryLook 73]

It looks like the fuse block had a little melt down at some point on this tractor. The 30 amp fuse is gone and has been relocated to a in line fuse. 
As far as I can tell, everything is hooked up correctly. But I don’t trust it 100%. When I got this tractor someone had bypassed the seat switch. They did it in a way that the tractor would never start (jumpered the wrong wires). 

Edited May 31, 2022 by JerryLook

[JerryLook 73]

The 30 amp fuse wiring interests me because that goes to the v-reg. I should probably trace all the wiring and inspect it visually. It looks like the tractor sat with the hood up for a while. The wire colors are pretty faded. 

[c-series don 7,971]

I’m curious how this turns out because my 416-H is not charging either. 

[Bill D 1,680]

Run a jumper from the positive terminal on the regulator to the positive on the battery and see if starts charging.  Also check the voltage going into the regulator.  Should be about 40 Volts AC across the two white wires.

[lynnmor 6,880]

Download the engine manual and do the tests on page 8-5.  When you prove the engine is good, then track down the disconnect in your knackered wiring.

[JerryLook 73]

Between the two white wires I get 37.5 vac. When I check for continuity between the red wire and the battery it’s open. So it sounds like either a bad connection or that wire is cut somewhere. I did verify the 30 amp fuse is good. 
The only jumpers I have with me are little 24 awg alligator clip jumpers. I think if I clip the output of the vreg to the battery it might smoke my jumper if it starts charging. Lol. 
 

Yes I should download the manual. I’m using the schematic I found online, but it doesn’t show a detailed view of the vreg 

 

This tractor sat outside for an unknown number of years. I’d say at least 5. In upstate NY. The key switch was so corroded when I got it that the battery terminal fell off. Haha. 
So I’m leaning towards bad connection somewhere. I did replace the main fuses and spray down the terminal block with deoxit. I also hit the main connector (9 pin?). There could have been something I missed. 

[johnnymag3 2,451]

That switch is toast....and is a big part of your charging issue in my opinion.......

[JerryLook 73]

It wouldn’t even start with that switch. I borrowed the switch from the C-105 on the first day I got the tractors. So it has a good working ignition switch in it right now. 
 

I verified on the wiring diagram they use the same switch. I have one on order for the C-105 

Edited June 1, 2022 by JerryLook

[JerryLook 73]

So two things I think are happening. First of all the regulator isn’t producing any DC voltage. The AC voltage coming into it seems to be good per the manual. 
 

Second, when the tractor was “rewired” it seems like they left out the jumper to send power to the battery from the regulator. Maybe they did it because the regulator wasn’t working then either, or maybe they forgot it. Looks like the fuse block melted and the hack job wiring was done after that. 

I also got a chance to pull off the gauge cluster and shifter panel while tracing wires. It’s very dirty in there. 
 

As a bonus I figured out why my parking brake light stays on all the time. Honestly I’m surprised the motion lever switch still works with how corroded it is, but it does. 
 

So while I have the shifter cover off I'm going to clean up all the crud in there, and lubricate the linkage. 
 

As a bonus, bonus, I found a large rodent nest behind the heat shield under the regulator. I had to loosen that heat shield to get it out. At least the engine will be able to cool itself off a little better now. 
 

Top pic is the e-brake switch. Wonder how it got bent like that. Lol. 
Bottom pic is the motion lever switch. Dirty but still has a strong “click”. 
Obviously neither of these are affecting my no charge issue, but something I wanted to fix regardless. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by JerryLook
Spelling

[953 nut 52,487]

12 hours ago, JerryLook said:

tractor sat outside for an unknown number of years. I’d say at least 5. In upstate NY. The key switch was so corroded when I got it that the battery terminal fell off

[JerryLook 73]

I think this is one of those things where one problem has led me to discover multiple other issues. Which is probably a good thing. 
I’ve been cleaning under the gear shift panel and behind the gauge cluster. When someone rerouted the the power wire from the 30 amp fuse they left it to rub against the steering shaft. So I’ll have to tie that out of the way. 
I feel like cleaning up all the grease and gunk is a good thing. It might save me from having a fire later on. 
 

I’m thinking I’m going to do this. I’m going to splice a wire in after the 30 amp fuse that goes to the battery. That’s how it shows it on the wiring diagram. 

Also I’m going to order a new regulator. Since I know I’m getting good AC to the regulator, and no output from it, I’m thinking it’s shot. The regulator case has a good ground to the battery, so it should work. 
I’ll test it out with my new spliced in wire in place before I order/replace the regulator. 
 

At some point I should get a new fuse block and rewire the tractor. I already have the wire to do it, I would just need the fuse block. I bet I could get a decent one for cheap from Mouser or Digikey. 

[lynnmor 6,880]

3 hours ago, JerryLook said:

I think this is one of those things where one problem has led me to discover multiple other issues. Which is probably a good thing. 
I’ve been cleaning under the gear shift panel and behind the gauge cluster. When someone rerouted the the power wire from the 30 amp fuse they left it to rub against the steering shaft. So I’ll have to tie that out of the way. 
I feel like cleaning up all the grease and gunk is a good thing. It might save me from having a fire later on. 
 

I’m thinking I’m going to do this. I’m going to splice a wire in after the 30 amp fuse that goes to the battery. That’s how it shows it on the wiring diagram. 

Also I’m going to order a new regulator. Since I know I’m getting good AC to the regulator, and no output from it, I’m thinking it’s shot. The regulator case has a good ground to the battery, so it should work. 
I’ll test it out with my new spliced in wire in place before I order/replace the regulator. 
 

At some point I should get a new fuse block and rewire the tractor. I already have the wire to do it, I would just need the fuse block. I bet I could get a decent one for cheap from Mouser or Digikey. 

RockAuto has them for under $4.

[JerryLook 73]

I love Rock auto. Sometimes I forget to check them first. 

[JerryLook 73]

Just to update this thread. I installed a new regulator today and I’m charging at 14.5 vdc now. 

[Jose 11]

On 5/31/2022 at 3:29 PM, peter lena said:

@JerryLook  run a additional light  ground cable from ,the battery ground bolt down point to  that bolt down point  on regulator, or give a try first with alligator clip test lead, if it improves you are on track . have that hooked up to my engine to frame and in turn to my engine cooling tins , and on to headlights , taillights , been solid and no issues since , pete   

Edited June 23, 2022 by Jose

[Jose 11]

Can you take a picture of the voltage regulator set up? Meaning the wires set up?  

[lynnmor 6,880]

The wires coming up from inside the engine go to the outside terminals and the center goes on to the tractor wiring.  The case of the regulator is grounded to the engine with its mounting bolt.