Winter fun - Project “Freedom” 440cc 2 Stroke 1054 Snowmotractor

[Pullstart 59,849]

36 minutes ago, wallfish said:

5/8 wide belts would probably perform better. Tight tight tight like you could play guitar on them

I once thought about putting pins in the pulley to catch the cog openings of the belt instead of relying on friction alone.

Chain it down in the shop or up to a wall so you can watch better. Look for the black powder of the belt for slipping areas but you might not have enough running time on it yet for that

Yeah, I am thinking a 5/8” belt too.  The last two pulleys are warm, where the rest are cold.  The slipping is surely on the last drive.  It is moving under it’s own power, just not well.

[Pullstart 59,849]

 

[wallfish 15,956]

49 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

The slipping is surely on the last drive.

Once that is locked it could move to the others like finding the weakest link

And just for kicks, if you spray the pulleys and belt with spray glue it will stick for a short time until it wears off. Certainly not a solution but it helps with proof of concept so you can fix, repair, redesign etc while you're waiting for parts.

Edited February 17, 2023 by wallfish

[Pullstart 59,849]

21 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Once that is locked it could move to the others like finding the weakest link

And just for kicks, if you spay the pulleys and belt with spray glue it will stick for a short time until it wears off. Certainly not a solution but it helps with proof of concept so you can fix, repair, redesign etc while you're waiting for parts.

I looked around for a quick minute for some!

[8ntruck 6,418]

Cog belt?

[wallfish 15,956]

5 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Cog belt?

[wallfish 15,956]

Here's another option

[Achto 26,610]

I know you have a lot of work, money & experimenting into this project already but I'm just gonna throw this out there again. Why not run sprockets & chains? A Suzuki Hayabusa has 187hp, at 9700RPMs, a claimed 110ft lbs of torque and will go 200+MPH with a 530 (equivalent to #50)  chain driving the wheel. I would think that the same size chain would hold up in your application. If you have room for the pulley's & belts you should have room for the same size sprockets & chains. You could still run your tensioners with an idle sprocket. Slipping issue would be gone. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Achto

[wallfish 15,956]

4 minutes ago, Achto said:

I know you have a lot of work, money & experimenting into this project already but I'm just gonna throw this out there again. Why not run sprockets & chains? A Suzuki Hayabusa has 187hp, at 9700RPMs, a claimed 110ft lbs of torque and will go 200+MPH with a #50 chain driving the wheel. I would think that the same size chain would hold up in your application. If you have room for the pulley's & belts you should have room for the same size sprockets & chains. You could still run your tensioners with an idle sprocket. Slipping issue would be gone. 

#40 chain and sprockets is what my newest project has to avoid the slipping issues

[Pullstart 59,849]

7 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Cog belt?

 

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

 

This is what I have that’s slipping.  Possibly a different brand wouldn’t slip as much?  Maybe I should try a GT wrapped belt?  
 

 
 

1 hour ago, Achto said:

I know you have a lot of work, money & experimenting into this project already but I'm just gonna throw this out there again. Why not run sprockets & chains? A Suzuki Hayabusa has 187hp, at 9700RPMs, a claimed 110ft lbs of torque and will go 200+MPH with a 530 (equivalent to #50)  chain driving the wheel. I would think that the same size chain would hold up in your application. If you have room for the pulley's & belts you should have room for the same size sprockets & chains. You could still run your tensioners with an idle sprocket. Slipping issue would be gone. 

I was considering a chain system again last night.  The only difference that I can think of, other than gobs of power difference, is the bike is running a final drive chain after a transmission.  My belt system pretty much IS the transmission.  That 530 chain is spinning much slower comparatively because of that, but I am not sure about top speed.  I’ll rethink the plans.  I’m sure not going to give up because it’s not working.  

 

 

[wallfish 15,956]

A rubber sided belt will grip better than a cloth wrapped belt.

1/16" spring pins installed through the pulley to catch the cogs on the belt? Doubtful it would need every single spot. Maybe 7 or 8 pins or less. Nothing to loose except for your left nut if it explodes LoL 

Wish I still had pics but once had an old rototiller that used sprockets and chains for a "gear reduction trans". All packed pretty tightly into a steel box

5 hours ago, Pullstart said:

Maybe I should try a GT wrapped belt?  

 

[Achto 26,610]

Putting coggs in the pulley. Sounds like a job for the rotary table on the mill. Index the holes out & install spiral roll pins through them.

[Pullstart 59,849]

Only one year into this project… plus or minus.  It’s funny how I push so hard to achieve something, when I need it.  Like just in time manufacturing…

 

I pushed this into the back storage for a while.  It’s overtaking me, and I have a few show jobs that need my focus more than a toy.

[Pullstart 59,849]

1 minute ago, Achto said:

Putting coggs in the pulley. Sounds like a job for the rotary table on the mill. Index the holes out & install spiral roll pins through them.

Hey, I got one of those here!  

[8ntruck 6,418]

I like the double V belt idea.

 

When I said cog belt, I was meaning something like a timing belt or a blower drive belt that runs on flat, toothed pulley.

[Oldskool 6,582]

I was checking out your slooooowwwwww mooooootion video.

Would it be beneficial to add a static idler pulley to the final reduction to get more belt wrap on the pulleys?

[Pullstart 59,849]

8 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

I like the double V belt idea.

 

When I said cog belt, I was meaning something like a timing belt or a blower drive belt that runs on flat, toothed pulley.

Couple reasons I haven’ gone that route.
 

1, and some might giggle at this, money.  Those systems are quite pricey.

 

2, it seems that what I need and what is available are two different spices.  I just haven’t found what I like, without #1 getting in the way.

 

It’s out of the shop now and my personal rush is slowing on it.  I am going to reverse engineer @Achto’s Huyabusa chain idea and see what fpm speeds they are running.  

[Pullstart 59,849]

1 hour ago, Oldskool said:

I was checking out your slooooowwwwww mooooootion video.

Would it be beneficial to add a static idler pulley to the final reduction to get more belt wrap on the pulleys?

Like this?

 

 

[Oldskool 6,582]

8 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Like this?

 

 

Yup that. Quick and easy. Just a thought.

[Pullstart 59,849]

If I can find a belt in my pile, I have more idlers,  I wouldn’t be out anything.  It’s worth a shot before I hit the chain shop up.

[Pullstart 59,849]

 

[SylvanLakeWH 24,231]

"A" for effort!!! 

[wallfish 15,956]

Sometimes it's best to walk away for a bit. Especially when frustrated.

[Oldskool 6,582]

I know just how it is. When I built Project Snowdrift the "screw drive tractor" I had higher expectations for it. It's still on the back burner. The Snowmotractor will have its day I'm sure.

 It was good to see it up and moving again though.

[Pullstart 59,849]

Maybe not this much reduction, but maybe I need to build a gear box!