kohler C175 fuel pump install

[Brockport Bill 1,844]

Kohler twin,  series 2, C175 ---- installed new fuel line, new tank valve, new fuel line hose, new filter and new fuel pump. Still won't run -- starts for few moments with starter fluid... but wont draw fuel to the mid line filter -- is there a proper way to install fuel pump arm to the cam ? Does it have to be in certain position -- either above or below ? What am i missing? thanks

[RED-Z06 2,491]

I put a new pump on an M12 today and it wouldn't pump...i manually covered the carb while cranking and it started pumping.

 

Then it leaked

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

1 hour ago, Brockport Bill said:

Does it have to be in certain position

 

I've never had to do anything with my pump on the 175 so can't answer directly, but on my 12 HP machine it DOES have to be correctly installed on top of the camshaft or carnage will ensue if tbe arm is UNDER the cam.

 

You could try priming the system by blowing into the fuel tank...

[Brockport Bill 1,844]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I've never had to do anything with my pump on the 175 so can't answer directly, but on my 12 HP machine it DOES have to be correctly installed on top of the camshaft or carnage will ensue if tbe arm is UNDER the cam.

 

You could try priming the system by blowing into the fuel tank...

will try using my lungs - see if that works -- I just don't understand with new hose and tank valve why i almost cant just get gravity flow? But i'll try the big blow sunday -- assuming it isn't artic outside???????????

[midpack 982]

I had a series 1 KT-17 with the same symptoms. I think the cam lobe on mine was worn because the pump worked fine. I went electric and no more starving for fuel.

[ebinmaine 71,216]

30 minutes ago, midpack said:

went electric

That would be a viable option. 

Another would be a marine priming bulb. 

 

The tractors with under seat tanks are known for wanting to be manually primed on occasion. 

The fuel pump used by Kohler is not the best at pulling the fuel all the way down the length of the tractor. 

I have 2 C160s with upper shelf tanks and even they struggle some on an empty system.  

 

This scenario is one of the reasons I changed over to using clear blue fuel line. Can't see through rubber to diagnose issues. 

 

Try using a vacuum pump or equivalent to manually move fuel from point to point to verify no blockages. 

Be sure to check that the mid line filter is installed correctly and flows ok. 

[SylvanLakeWH 27,801]

31 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Another would be a marine priming bulb. 

Works like a charm on mine…

[953 nut 58,466]

Fuel pumps are gre4at pushers but lousy suckers! With the fuel pump being mounted on the top of your engine and the tank being low it will need some help filling the fuel line. Like @Jeff-C175 said, a bit of pressure applied to the tank should do the trick. I prefer to use an air compressor nozzle so I don't take the chance of inhaling fumes. On my 418-C I went to an electric pump mounted low on the frame and have had no problems.

[Brockport Bill 1,844]

thanks all -- blew air into tank - which pushed fuel to the empty filter -- then put hand over carb -- and success - it started -- sadly, only to produce a later compression test of low numbers - sucks!!!!

[RED-Z06 2,491]

2 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

thanks all -- blew air into tank - which pushed fuel to the empty filter -- then put hand over carb -- and success - it started -- sadly, only to produce a later compression test of low numbers - sucks!!!!

What numbers did you get?

 

Kohler, briggs...etc generally dont publish a go/no go compression range because the compression release will cause a healthy and sick engine to both blow low numbers.  Gauge style, cranking speed, throttle/choke position, temp, can all have an affect on compression numbers.

 

If it runs, doesn't smoke...its good

Edited January 16, 2022 by RED-Z06

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

59 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

the compression release

 

 

LEAK DOWN TEST is a better choice.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[ebinmaine 71,216]

15 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

 

LEAK DOWN TEST is a better choice.

 

Do the flat twins have the compression release as well?

 

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

16 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Do the flat twins have the compression release as well?

 

 

Hmmmm...  that's a good question!  I  ASSumed that they did, but not certain now that ya got me thinking.

 

Mrs. Google tells me that the KT-17 does NOT have ACR.

 

I like a leakdown test better in any case.  I think it's a more comprehensive test that can give more information.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[953 nut 58,466]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I like a leakdown test better in any case.  I think it's a more comprehensive test that can give more information

         

When the compression test was done was the engine at normal operating temperature and throttle wide open?

[Brockport Bill 1,844]

srtill consider myself a newbie at these mechanical issues .....although learned an enormous amount since the spring when i got more seriously into the Horse world - owning a 312-8 since 89 i suppose only qualifies me as a casual user - but since the spring playing with a handful more in the fleet has allowed me to learn lots but also appreciate how much you all know and how much i still lack in critical info - yes, i am aware of the Kohler compression release but not really sure in what engines or exactly how it effects the compression testing - i did specifically warm the engine - then throttle up and choke open - the cold pressure reading before i was able to get it started were both about 75 - then warm i got 75 front and 45 rear -- interestingly, i had installed new plugs but after running for 10 minutes to get it warm, the rear plug was already dark and the front plug pretty clean -  i also ran it up a small slope in my yard and ran ok -- I just got a leak down test kit today but then ran into cold temps and sunset so no time for leak down test -- I am not giving up!!! Hoping that maybe the leak down test when i get to it will show better news - or option to find affordable rebuild mechanic .......or get a replacement used engine - or last option sell as is -- this would not be my main tractor but i would like it to run ok - and use primarily for winter snow plow work with the hydro lift.

[pfrederi 18,410]

15 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Do the flat twins have the compression release as well?

 

No ACR on KT-17 or magnum 18

[ebinmaine 71,216]

1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

No ACR on KT-17 or magnum 18

Ok thanks Paul. 

I wondered because my 23 HP doesn't have ACR either.  That's a size or 2 bigger block family and of course wasn't a Wheelhorse spec engine. 

[pfrederi 18,410]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Ok thanks Paul. 

I wondered because my 23 HP doesn't have ACR either.  That's a size or 2 bigger block family and of course wasn't a Wheelhorse spec engine. 

I am pretty sure the cast iron twins used in D series which are directly related to your 23hp didn't have it either

[pfrederi 18,410]

Do the leakdown and pray it is a leaky valve.  Did a complete overhaul on a Magnum 18 (which is just a KT17 with magneto ignition) $800 and a lot of time

[Brockport Bill 1,844]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Do the leakdown and pray it is a leaky valve.  Did a complete overhaul on a Magnum 18 (which is just a KT17 with magneto ignition) $800 and a lot of time

what did the $800 include ? did you send it out to a shop -- or was that new, parts,  pistons etc - your own labor?

[pfrederi 18,410]

20 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

what did the $800 include ? did you send it out to a shop -- or was that new, parts,  pistons etc - your own labor?

See this thread.  at that point I was at 750  there were a few more small things so about 800.  Machine shop was 250 to bore two cylinders and grind to rod journals.  The parts are mostly aftermarket... Kohler parts are largely NLA.  I already had engine overhaul tools (valve spring compressors piston ring tools etc.) that would be an additional cost...

 

I will not do it again.  When one of my KT17s expire it will be repowered.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by pfrederi

[Brockport Bill 1,844]

yup  --- a major undertaking -- what would you put in it if that were best option?