Roger R 459 #26 Posted January 13, 2022 I think there are as many ideas on engine oil as there are those who change oil, so here's my two cents. I have been using AMSOIL small engine synthetic almost as long as it has been available with no problems, and the cranking speed is close to the same at 0 deg as summer temps. Older engines MAY consume s bit more, and if you have a seal leaking problem, it will show it up a bit more than conventional oils. otherwise I find it works well. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelhorseBob 1,550 #27 Posted January 13, 2022 16 hours ago, Snoopy11 said: No problem here buddy! I like the discussion. I know that oil conversations can get... ugly... but it won't go there with me... as I won't attack your logic or experience. NOW... let's dig in! You realize that those are API ratings... correct? API ratings for the automotive world, may I add. Feel free to explain more of why those ratings are important in our conversation. And that the most important aspect for flat tappets is ZDDP. Mobil-1 has high(er) levels of ZDDP than many other brands... thus why it is recommended by certain small engine performance groups. (That, lucas, or Royal Purple). I have some experience with royal purple... not enough to make me want to use it all the time. Just my experience. Don I love oil conversion. Not really sure why? Anyway SN oils are modern energy conserving and designed for modern vehicles with catalytic converters. Hence the low Relative zinc and phosphorus levels. ZDDP can decrease catalytic converter life. I own two classic cars and do my best to run an oil that is right for them and that means more Zinc than SN oils provide. Old l head singles and twins also have flat tappets and I feel better knowing they have higher ZDDP oil in them. I should say that even though they are flat tappets, the spring pressures are low and it’s probably not all that important to run a higher ZDDP oil but it makes me feel better. Btw I just tried the new Royal Purple HPS in my built sbc. I’ve tried Vr1, Lucas Etc. Curious how the RP will perform. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #28 Posted January 13, 2022 16 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said: API classifications dictate the amounts of additives included in the blend 4 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said: I love oil conversion. Not really sure why? Anyway SN oils are modern energy conserving and designed for modern vehicles with catalytic converters. Hence the low Relative zinc and phosphorus levels. ZDDP can decrease catalytic converter life. I own two classic cars and do my best to run an oil that is right for them and that means more Zinc than SN oils provide. Old l head singles and twins also have flat tappets and I feel better knowing they have higher ZDDP oil in them. I should say that even though they are flat tappets, the spring pressures are low and it’s probably not all that important to run a higher ZDDP oil but it makes me feel better. Btw I just tried the new Royal Purple HPS in my built sbc. I’ve tried Vr1, Lucas Etc. Curious how the RP will perform. Yes, Bob, I think most people get pissy when they start talking about oils... (why, I have no idea)... I like sharing information, personal experiences, and research Well, here goes nothing. I hate to touch on politics, but it is something that needs to be said. As long as no one gives opinions on the stupidity of it, I think it will be fine... API ratings hold-hands with emissions programs... (i.e. climate change framework). There, I said it. That doesn't necessarily make them "bad" oils for the crank journal. BUT... What we "should" do in our modern world is add ZDDP to our oils to curb tappet/follower wear. You don't "have" to use ZDDP additive, but I guarantee, unless you are using a specialty racing blend, no matter what oil you use, you aren't getting a sufficient amount of ZDDP to make a difference. If I chose to use Royal Purple for instance, which supposedly has a high ZDDP level... I would still use Lucas ZDDP additive as a precaution. Now, if I wanted highest ZDDP levels attainable in pre-bottled oil, there are oils out there for racing that have ZDDP at sufficient levels. However, we can't buy these oils in parts stores... I have a gallon of Mobil-1 10w-30 oil in my shop. I poured 1 bottle of Lucas ZDDP additive into the gallon of oil. That is what I run in my engines. I run performance cat converters on my Ranger... thus, it allows me to "properly" run ZDDP. NOW, I run racing Royal Purple that I have to order online... UGH ... AND ZDDP Lucas additive. You think I am nuts, don't you? Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #29 Posted January 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Snoopy11 said: You think I am nuts, don't you? Well... yeah... but not because of your views on oleo ! Something to keep in mind about the ZDDP additive. The correct amount is good of course. TOO MUCH is NOT good. I'm not a chemist and don't fully understand all the stuff that I've read over the years but I accept as fact that TOO MUCH ZDDP can, over time, turn the oil ACIDIC. It would be a wise oil guy that looked at how much ZDDP is in the oil they purchase (that info can be found on manufacturers websites), and add only enough ZDDP to get to about 1500 ppm of ZDDP. This is fairly easily done with some simple ciphering. I did the ciphering for Rotella T1 30W and determined that 1 oz per gallon is the 'correct' dosage to get to the 1500 ppm mark, or 'close enough' for gummint work. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #30 Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said: 'close enough' for gummint work 1,800-2,000 PPM is the "max" limit... if I remember correctly... Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #31 Posted January 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: 1,800-2,000 PPM is the "max" limit... if I remember correctly... Don Could be. I think that's what they shoot for in racing applications, typically where the oil doesn't stay in the engine long enough to turn acidic. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #32 Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, Jeff-C175 said: Could be. I think that's what they shoot for in racing applications, typically where the oil doesn't stay in the engine long enough to turn acidic. That, and although it may be more or less obvious, I think what is technically "necessary" is based on the intensity of the cam, valve springs, and the like. A normal ...let's say... Kohler 321 wouldn't need quite the level of a 212 stage 4... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #33 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) @Jeff-C175... you also touch on another important point. Another aspect that I think is worthy of our consideration is, more so than the type of oil used, what is even more important is changing the oil at regular, proper intervals. Imagining that racing guys put a lot of time and effort into avoiding crank journal wear, they change the oil VERY often. This is done for various reasons. But considering that any particles of aluminum in the oil not only get inside the crank journal, but also glide across the cam lobes, it is pretty obvious how this could be a bad combination. Thus why, you can use the “best” oil on the market, (whatever you think that is), but if you don’t change it enough… you are eliminating the purpose of using that quality oil. I change the oil in my performance engines not long after the oil turns dark. Don Edited January 14, 2022 by Snoopy11 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 18,708 #34 Posted January 14, 2022 I avoid oil type discussions because after all we all have opinions (as we all have rectums) but let me comment on the close enough for government work. Back in the early/mid 1800s only the federal government had time and expertise to do quality surveying and making fine measurements. Hence the term close enough for government work was actually a positive thing... Then we got civil service unions etc... 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #35 Posted January 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, pfrederi said: Then we got 4 minutes ago, pfrederi said: rectums 4 minutes ago, pfrederi said: for government work Eventually, I plan to work for the government. I will choose to show my work ethic. Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #36 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, pfrederi said: we all have opinions Which should be based on the cold hard facts. Unfortunately, some don't do that. Here's another possible explanation of " CEFGW " Quote Etymology[edit] The phrase was created in World War II with the usage meaning that a product met the highest standards of quality and would not be accepted by Uncle Sam if it did not. The phrase was used as early as 1906 in Canada with the usage being neither disparaging nor better than non-government work.[1] It was used disparagingly as early as 1960.[2] Which is somewhat dubious because if it was "created in World War II" then how was it used in Canada in 1906? WWII was 40 years later ! Edited January 14, 2022 by Jeff-C175 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 708 #37 Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/12/2022 at 11:27 AM, Pullstart said: You know you got a great deal, we don’t have to tell you three or four times! But we will anyways, great buy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,582 #38 Posted January 14, 2022 I use Valvoline VR1 oil in all my non-command engines, got alot of Zinc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wh5208speed 646 #39 Posted January 15, 2022 Just to throw another option on the table. Shell Rotella also has a synthetic blend 10W-30 diesel oil that has good zinc content 1,200 PPM. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
