Won't crank

[mort 24]

The last time my wife used the Wheel Horse 310-8 (Kohler) is worked perfectly. No starting issues at all.

The next time she used it (about a week later) it would not crank.

Absolutely nothing would happen. I cleaned all of the battery connections and they were fine.

I decided to charge it but it wasn't the greatest charge. Still no crank so I brought it to Farm & Fleet to get it checked.

He said the battery was fine so I thought I would try another battery as it was closer to the tractor.

No crank/no nothing. I checked the two fuses( twice) and they were fine.

I did bypass the solenoid with a screwdriver and it started to crank.

Where does this point me to?

Thanks,

Mort

[Achto 28,806]

5 minutes ago, mort said:

Where does this point me to?

 

I would start by making sure that you are getting power to the small wire on the starter solenoid when the key is in the start position. If you are, then I would suspect a bad solenoid. If you are not then I would suspect a safety switch ( seat, PTO, brake peddle ) or a bad key switch.

[8ntruck 7,395]

This sounds like one of the safety switches is giving you problems. 

 

On my 14-8, there is a safety switch on the PTO clutch lever.  If the lever is not fully on the 'off' position, the switch is not made and the tractor does not crank.  It usually comes back to life after I move the lever into the engage position and back to the off position.

 

Probably a similar system in your 310-8.  Look in the manuals section of the forum for a wiring diagram that will illustrate the safety switches in your tractor.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[953 nut 58,024]

11 minutes ago, mort said:

worked perfectly. No starting issues at all.

The next time she used it (about a week later) it would not crank.

Is the PTO off?  With the PTO on the start signal won't get to the solenoid, happens to al of us from time to time.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,253]

We never hear of this happening but it can.

The low oil switch in the engine can open and prevent the starter from operating. This failure should put the low oil light on.

A must read if it does

 

[peter lena 9,093]

 

@mort  sounds like a connection issue to me , typically found that behind dash area , multiple stressed plastic connections , would short each other out , pull every connection apart , verify , for corrosion , shorting out , i typically use alligator clip wire connectors to jump over and get things moving . as you move and check things , go back to your ignition switch key , on/ off , to see if you have a gain . pete

[mort 24]

All good information above.

I am not getting voltage at the solenoid when I turn the key to start.

looks like it could be a start switch or a safety switch.

 

Doe anybody have a source and new part numbers for solenoid #110167 or #740207 and

#111215 or #103991 just in case I need them down the road?

 

Thanks,

Mort

 

[mort 24]

 

All good information above.

I am not getting voltage at the solenoid when I turn the key to start.

looks like it could be a start switch or a safety switch.

 

Doe anybody have a source and new part numbers for solenoid #110167 or #740207 and

#111215 or #103991 just in case I need them down the road?

 

Thanks,

Mort

[8ntruck 7,395]

If you are not getting voltage at the solenoid, start backtracking for voltage along the wiring towards the ignition switch.  Sooner or later, you will find a device with voltage going in, but none coming out.  That will be where the problem is.

[953 nut 58,024]

23 minutes ago, mort said:

I am not getting voltage at the solenoid when I turn the key to start.

If you are not getting any voltage to the solenoid when the key is turned you probably don't need to replace the solenoid. 

Not all 310-8 tractors have the same wiring, what year or model number are you working on. In most cases the wire from the ignition switch "S" terminal will go through the clutch switch, PTO switch, and the low oil relay (if your tractor has the oil sentry switch). Without  knowing the year/model number it is hard to direct your troubleshooting effort.

[pfrederi 18,345]

run a jumper wire from battery + to the small terminal on your solenoid ...if it cranks your problem is upstream//

[mort 24]

15 hours ago, 953 nut said:

If you are not getting any voltage to the solenoid when the key is turned you probably don't need to replace the solenoid. 

Not all 310-8 tractors have the same wiring, what year or model number are you working on. In most cases the wire from the ignition switch "S" terminal will go through the clutch switch, PTO switch, and the low oil relay (if your tractor has the oil sentry switch). Without  knowing the year/model number it is hard to direct your troubleshooting effort.

It is a 1985 Wheel Horse 310-8 (21-10K806).

I don't think it is the solenoid but plan on jumping safety switches today to zero in on the problem.

Thanks,

Gary

[tunahead72 2,518]

2 hours ago, mort said:

It is a 1985 Wheel Horse 310-8 (21-10K806)...

 

"1985" and "21-10K806" don't match.  Is your Kohler engine a K-series K241, or a Magnum M10?

 

[mort 24]

That 21-10K806 was on my parts/service manual.

It is a Kohler 10HP K241

[tunahead72 2,518]

Mmmm...  Be very careful here, you may have the wrong manuals.  Assuming the engine is original, your tractor would be either a 1985 or 1986 model, model 21-10K801, ...802 or ...803.  It matters, but the general troubleshooting direction these guys have given you is good.

 

I'm pretty sure the part numbers you gave earlier for the solenoid and ignition switch are wrong, but it would really help to know the exact model number for your tractor.  Do you have a VIN tag that you can still read?  It would probably be just below the seat, on the front of the rear fender.  Or can you find the spec number on the engine (it should be either 46849 or 46863)?

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by tunahead72
Corrected tractor model number

[mort 24]

49 minutes ago, tunahead72 said:

Mmmm...  Be very careful here, you may have the wrong manuals.  Assuming the engine is original, your tractor would be either a 1985 or 1986 model, model 21-10K801, ...802 or ...803.  It matters, but the general troubleshooting direction these guys have given you is good.

 

I'm pretty sure the part numbers you gave earlier for the solenoid and ignition switch are wrong, but it would really help to know the exact model number for your tractor.  Do you have a VIN tag that you can still read?  It would probably be just below the seat, on the front of the rear fender.  Or can you find the spec number on the engine (it should be either 46849 or 46863)?

 

Actually it is a 21-10K801. I just checked my original operator's manual. Engine is 46849. I can absolutely read the VIN tag as it is near showroom condition and I am the original owner. This was my first Wheel Horse and my wife loves driving it. She loves cutting grass, pulling her cart around the property and now she has been begging me to put on the snow plow for her. LOL!

[pfrederi 18,345]

29 minutes ago, mort said:

Actually it is a 21-10K801. I just checked my original operator's manual. Engine is 46849. I can absolutely read the VIN tag as it is near showroom condition and I am the original owner. This was my first Wheel Horse and my wife loves driving it. She loves cutting grass, pulling her cart around the property and now she has been begging me to put on the snow plow for her. LOL!

Something is a miss according to Kohler there is no 46849.. 46863 is a WE spec engine...

 

Any way if you applied 12v to the small solenoid terminal did it crank???

[mort 24]

11 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Something is a miss according to Kohler there is no 46849.. 46863 is a WE spec engine...

 

Any way if you applied 12v to the small solenoid terminal did it crank???

 

11 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Something is a miss according to Kohler there is no 46849.. 46863 is a WE spec engine...

 

Any way if you applied 12v to the small solenoid terminal did it crank???

Yes it cranked and found a corroded wire on the clutch safety switch. It seems to be working now. I want to get a spare key switch and would like the correct number of the solenoid just in case I need one fast, 46849 is correct as it is on my original invoice and what I wrote on my operator's manual over 36 years ago.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,253]

46849 is in this Wheel Horse service bulletin.

 

[kpinnc 13,798]

On 12/1/2021 at 8:08 AM, gwest_ca said:

We never hear of this happening but it can.

The low oil switch in the engine can open and prevent the starter from operating. This failure should put the low oil light on.

 

Actually this was what kept mine from starting when I first brought it home, but mine was a 1987 with no dash warning lights. 

[mort 24]

3 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Actually this was what kept mine from starting when I first brought it home, but mine was a 1987 with no dash warning lights. 

After a bunch of trouble shooting I found a corroded wire on the clutch safety switch.

Thank you for your help

Mort

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,253]

3 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Actually this was what kept mine from starting when I first brought it home, but mine was a 1987 with no dash warning lights. 

The 1987 diagrams show just an oil light as do all the 310's through their run with the low oil switch.

 

[kpinnc 13,798]

I should clarify- Yes mine had the single low oil light, and it worked when the "test" switch was actuated. What it did not have was the panel of lights on later machines.

 

But the light didn't come on when starts were attempted. It did nothing whatsoever. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by kpinnc