fuel pump arm broken off in K301

[gvthnks 46]

Some days are like this...

 

Not sure how in the world I did it, but in bolting the pump back onto the K301 in my Raider 12, I broke off the pump arm.  It now resides inside the block somewhere.

 

I have fished around the bottom of the oil pan with a magnet for 30 minutes and cannot locate it.  

Is it possible it could have lodged on a ridge of something above the cam?  Been 30+ years since I've been inside one of these so I'm not familiar with them.  I can rotate the engine by hand easily enough, and I though if it just happened to be laying on top of the cam somehow that would be enough to dislodge it or make it fall.  

 

Gonna go back and fish around some more.  I'm dreading the idea of pulling the engine and removing the oil pan but I may have to.  

 

 

[WHX?? 51,712]

Keep fishing with the magnet is all I can suggest. Maybe take the cam gear cover off and look in there. Remove the oil drain pipe and fish through there? 

It is pretty bizarre that the lever broke off. I just wouldn't think it would be on top of the cam. One would think gravity would put in the pan. 

[squonk 43,736]

The arm is supposed ride on the bottom of the cam. If you got it on top that would explain it breaking. Try Jim's advice of fishing thru the oil drain. If that doesn't work, get a pan gasket and unbolt the four pan bolts. Have your wife lift the engine from the pan and get the arm out. No need to unhook everything this way. Then take your time scraping  the old gasket off cleaning the pan and gluing the new gasket on the pan while your wife continues to hold the engine up! 

Edited September 9, 2021 by squonk

[rmaynard 16,291]

24 minutes ago, squonk said:

The arm is supposed ride on the bottom of the cam. 

 

Hold up there partner. This is straight from the K-Series manual page 6.3 The arm is supposed to ride above the camshaft.

 

 

Also, be careful not to mount the pump up-side-down.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by rmaynard

[WHX?? 51,712]

Squonky.... and here for a second I thought you were serious about the wife thing...... 

[tunahead72 2,543]

Oh, he's not? 

[WHX?? 51,712]

18 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

 

Also, be careful not to mount the pump up-side-down

[squonk 43,736]

Actually I meant in frt of the cam and not behind. I don't fool with those pumps anymore. It's electric or another tractor.

[Ed Kennell 41,802]

We will need pics of Mrs. Engine Lift.    

[stevasaurus 23,274]

Is that arm ferrous metal??  Will a magnet pick it up??  Just thinking.  

[gvthnks 46]

oil drain on this one comes out and takes a hard 90 because of the battery box.  No real way to get in there even if I took the drain port off. 

 

I've drained the oil and have been magnet fishing for a while now...  

 

Maybe I'm using the wrong bait.  Went to the gym with wife already this morning so she's already tuckered out.   Her holding it up may have to wait till tomorrow. 

 

I'll change bait and keep trying. 

[gvthnks 46]

Just now, stevasaurus said:

Is that arm ferrous metal??  Will a magnet pick it up??  Just thinking.  

 

I wondered that too.  The magnet seems to pick up the piece that is still attached to the pump so I'm assuming it will.   I tried that this morning. 

[Snoopy11 5,718]

28 minutes ago, gvthnks said:

 

I wondered that too.  The magnet seems to pick up the piece that is still attached to the pump so I'm assuming it will.   I tried that this morning. 

Do you have a borescope?

 

I have a borescope with a magnet on the end. I fished out a pushrod of one of my briggs engines that way. 

 

Don

[gvthnks 46]

I don't have a bore scope, but I did stay at a holiday inn one time.

 

Got it out.  Could see it from the fuel pump hole, but couldn't get the magnet to it.  Resolved to unbolt the engine and tilt it and hopefully move it to where I could latch onto it.  That didn't work, but that's when I noticed the dipstick tube mount was bolted on with three allen head bolts. 

I removed it and the magnet-on-a-stick that I have went right to it and lifted it out.

 

I've quit for the day since I've completely neglected any adult responsibilities after running down this rabbit hole early this morning. 

Now I'm back where I started from, with no fuel getting to carb due to fuel pump issues. 

Thanks for the tips, help, and laughs.

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by gvthnks

[WHX?? 51,712]

Good to hear ! ... forgot about the dipstick coming off all my Ks are the older style. 

[squonk 43,736]

Blank off the pump hole and go electric.

 

 

 

[gvthnks 46]

19 minutes ago, squonk said:

Blank off the pump hole and go electric.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a KT17 or two with the mechanical pumps and a M18 and M20 that work well with them.  I'd like to avoid adding electrical accessories if I don't have to.

 

The cam eccentric that actuates the pump arm seems to be fine and not 'worn out'.    If I can keep it mechanical, that's what I'd prefer.  Otherwise, I may make a block off plate and use a pulse pump. 

Thanks

[953 nut 59,800]

8 hours ago, squonk said:

Have your wife lift the engine from the pan and get the arm out. No need to unhook everything this way. Then take your time scraping  the old gasket off cleaning the pan and gluing the new gasket on the pan while your wife continues to hold the engine up!

 

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

for a second I thought you were serious about the wife thing.

 

7 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Oh, he's not?

[Bill D 2,246]

I made this for my Dad's tractor.  You can use it to mount a pulse pump to the block.  

[Snoopy11 5,718]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:44 PM, gvthnks said:

I don't have a bore scope, but I did stay at a holiday inn one time.

 

Don

[tunahead72 2,543]

Oh good, I'm glad it wasn't just me. 

 

[richmondred01 2,307]

Open her up. You got to get it out. There’s also a small spring and rivet. You need to make sure they aren’t in there too. Last thing you need is foreign objects bouncing around in your block.

I’ve seen the plastic flipper break on an oil sender (low oil) causing a rod to break because the pieces of plastic got into the cam and crank gears. 
I’ve pulled plastic out of the main bearings and valve chamber. 
I remove those senders. Accident waiting to happen. 
Dip stick works fine for me. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by richmondred01

[WHX?? 51,712]

17 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

 

Don

 

15 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Oh good, I'm glad it wasn't just me. 

 

I thought he was sayin Holliday inn had a bore scope up his rear when gave him his bill ??

[Snoopy11 5,718]

18 hours ago, richmondred01 said:

Open her up. You got to get it out.

Hmm... @gvthnks already did get it out... without opening it up... to which I say...

 

Don