lynnmor 6,837 #26 Posted September 19, 2021 Is this the gasket for the needle seat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #27 Posted September 19, 2021 Yes, sorry I thought I mentioned that. Whoops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #28 Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) Okay, new float needle is in and it started after I messed around with a few things. It ran for about 30 seconds to 1 minute and would stumble and die, then one time I moved the throttle up just a smidge until it stopped stumbling. Ran good for about 3 minutes no choke so I raised the throttle to see if it would engage the PTO. Nope… same as before it would stumble and die and then backfired twice. I realize now, I don’t think it was at full throttle. I think my tach is broken but I have heard this thing run at 3600 rpm and this did not sound like it. Since it backfired twice it will not restarted. Ideas? Thanks, Andrew P.S. Below is a photo of the old needle (left) and the new one (right) I used a Briggs and Stratton 797410 and it was identical to the old one. Well except this one actually has the seal. Edited October 2, 2021 by WheelHorse520H Photos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #29 Posted October 2, 2021 Sorry, I forgot to mention, the fuel filter is empty again, I have a rotation of all good fuel pumps that all work but the filter just never fills up. Just like it was doing before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 6,837 #30 Posted October 2, 2021 Don't expect to completely fill the fuel filter, they always have a considerable amount of air trapped inside. Is the carburetor full of gas? What do you mean about the PTO engagement? Do you mean that the engine dies when you operate the PTO lever? Perhaps you are killing the ignition with a safety switch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #31 Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, lynnmor said: What do you mean about the PTO engagement? Do you mean that the engine dies when you operate the PTO lever? Perhaps you are killing the ignition with a safety switch. I actually forgot to connect the seat switch. 30 minutes ago, lynnmor said: Don't expect to completely fill the fuel filter, they always have a considerable amount of air trapped inside. As discussed before on this thread it should be about 1/2 full, on this there is only enough to just coat the bottom. I was able to run it again for another 3 minutes or so and then it missed a couple times and I shut the key off before it backfired so it just gave a puff. Seems to have similar symptoms as a faulty Ignition Control Module. Correct? Unfortunately I bought one a couple months ago but forgot to take a picture of how it went in so I put it in upside down. I was stumped as to why it would start then I realized and took the flywheel off and there it was…shattered. Also, I noticed it runs smoothest at about 1/4-1/3 throttle. Would this cause it to not reach operating speed? If so, how can I correct this? Edited October 2, 2021 by WheelHorse520H Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 6,837 #32 Posted October 2, 2021 Did you try eliminating any fuel pump problems and simply connect a container held above the engine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #33 Posted October 3, 2021 4 hours ago, lynnmor said: Did you try eliminating any fuel pump problems and simply connect a container held above the engine? No, gas can is empty I might get some tomorrow or later this week. I hadn’t thought of that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #34 Posted October 9, 2021 Okay, I put a new vacuum line on because I looked at it and where it connects to the fuel pump was brittle. Got everything back together and cranked it over, fired right up and ran…fast. Too fast it was now running at about the speed for operate. Now that I think about it this is like what happened on that greyhound engine this week where the governor was holding it open. So I shut it off and went to get my tools for a quick idle adjustment when I notice the fuel filter had emptied. (I filled it with an eye dropper to get it to start.) Okay. So it might just be because it was running fast, so I adjusted the governor to slow it down a little and I filled the line leading to the filter and filter with gas. But when I disconnected the line from the fuel pump, I noticed that it was pressurized. When I was removing the line it was hard as a rock, but when it came off fuel shot everywhere and the line was more flexible. So I took off the line between the pump and filter and the line between the filter and carb and straightened them and could see clean through them. So I put them back on and primed the line like before and tried to start it. I noticed little air bubbles now and then in the filter but I think that was just because the lines were just off and not completely full. But it wouldn’t even puff anymore, at this point the engine was off for about 20 minutes. Ideas? Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 10,708 #35 Posted October 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said: Okay, I put a new vacuum line on because I looked at it and where it connects to the fuel pump was brittle. Got everything back together and cranked it over, fired right up and ran…fast. Too fast it was now running at about the speed for operate. Now that I think about it this is like what happened on that greyhound engine this week where the governor was holding it open. So I shut it off and went to get my tools for a quick idle adjustment when I notice the fuel filter had emptied. (I filled it with an eye dropper to get it to start.) Okay. So it might just be because it was running fast, so I adjusted the governor to slow it down a little and I filled the line leading to the filter and filter with gas. But when I disconnected the line from the fuel pump, I noticed that it was pressurized. When I was removing the line it was hard as a rock, but when it came off fuel shot everywhere and the line was more flexible. So I took off the line between the pump and filter and the line between the filter and carb and straightened them and could see clean through them. So I put them back on and primed the line like before and tried to start it. I noticed little air bubbles now and then in the filter but I think that was just because the lines were just off and not completely full. But it wouldn’t even puff anymore, at this point the engine was off for about 20 minutes. Ideas? Thoughts? Couple things... Fuel filters almost never get "full" or stay full. The fuel isn't flowing fast enough to clear the trapped air. It's also expected that immediately after shutting down, there will be some pressure between the pump and the closed float valve in the carb. But it sounded to me like you opened the line from filter to carb and no pressure. THEN opened the line from pump to filter and found pressure. Clogged filter? When you say 'vacuum line" do you mean the line from the fuel tank to the pump? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #36 Posted October 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, Handy Don said: Clogged filter? When you say 'vacuum line" do you mean the line from the fuel tank to the pump? I was thinking a clogged filter too but I wasn’t sure. The vacuum line I am referring to it the one that goes from the crankcase to the pump that causes the pulsation for the pump to operate. Not the line from the tank to the pump. Sorry for not being clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 10,708 #37 Posted October 9, 2021 40 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said: I was thinking a clogged filter too but I wasn’t sure. The vacuum line I am referring to it the one that goes from the crankcase to the pump that causes the pulsation for the pump to operate. Not the line from the tank to the pump. Sorry for not being clear. I encountered one type of filter years ago that had a check valve in it but never saw one since. If you don't have a kinked hose somewhere, clogged seems likeliest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #38 Posted October 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Handy Don said: I encountered one type of filter years ago that had a check valve in it but never saw one since. If you don't have a kinked hose somewhere, clogged seems likeliest. Why a check valve? To keep the fuel for an easier start up? I’ll check the fuel filter tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #39 Posted October 10, 2021 Done. The idle adjustment screw was out of wack. It ran and idled better than ever. I even started to mow with it today. Until the mule drive fell off because it was not installed correctly and I sheared a flywheel key. But the story with that is I bought one from @onanparts.com but it was defective, I broke it yesterday when I took the flywheel off to get better access to change the vacuum line. So naturally since I don’t have a welder I took my dad’s plumbing torch and some soldering wire and after a couple tries was able to make it work to get things solved. Ordered 2 new ones from Jack’s Small Engines because they were cheaper. One extra to keep in case one breaks. So all in all it was a good day here. Thank you all for the valuable info and hopefully this machine is squared away, I will be sure to keep you all posted. The photo below shows the defects (kind of) in the flywheel key. You can see the little etchings where there was just no metal, at first I thought it was the way it broke but I noticed that both pieces were flat or dropped down, nothing fit into the etched areas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 10,708 #40 Posted October 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said: It ran and idled better than ever. I even started to mow with it today. Until the mule drive fell off because it was not installed correctly and I sheared a flywheel key. Ok, so some good and some not so good. Puzzled about the keys and defects. Keys are pretty simple pieces of steel designed to hold things securely but yield by shearing if the load exceeds the design. Can you post a picture with them in better focus please? Is this the key between the flywheel and the crankshaft? It's pretty darn rare to shear a flywheel key without having something being driven by the engine abruptly stop the engine from turning--is that what happened when the Mule fell off? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 706 #41 Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Handy Don said: Can you post a picture with them in better focus please? I might try again when I swap them out but it was tough to get a good shot. 14 minutes ago, Handy Don said: Is this the key between the flywheel and the crankshaft? Yes. 14 minutes ago, Handy Don said: It's pretty darn rare to shear a flywheel key without having something being driven by the engine abruptly stop the engine from turning Yes, I agree that’s what makes me believe it was a defect, it got stuck in the key way on the flywheel yesterday when it broke, I think some rust jammed it up, then I tapped a rock with the deck today witch I believe weakened my solder enough that when I tried to restart it after mounting the mule drive it broke. 14 minutes ago, Handy Don said: is that what happened when the Mule fell off? No, the engine still ran and I actually ran over the mule drive and didn’t notice that it wasn’t a rock at first. It’s a very complicated situation here. Edited October 10, 2021 by WheelHorse520H Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
