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DennisThornton
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

 I have been watching Scotty Kilmer lately, and he talks about fuel system cleaner. There is an additive to the stuff that contains nitrogen. Gumout has the highest concentration.and turns the nitrogen test strips the brightest shade of red. Seafoam has none. But fuel system cleaner may be more related to fuel injectors. I do not know just what exactly Seafoam contains, but it smells exactly like lacquer thinner, which positively will dissolve completely the varnish in the old school 20 year old straight gas left to rot in antique motorcycle tanks.

I've added Seafoam and problems have gone away.  Not very scientific. Here's some info I gathered a while back.  I see nothing special in the ingredients that explains to me why it works or why it costs so much but I never run out of the stuff. 

 

EDIT:

I should make this more clear that the comments below are NOT mine!  I have NOT made my own SeaFoam BUT if I were I would NOT use 91% iso since I suspect that would leave 9% as water and I see NO water in the MSDS.  Might help explain some of SeaFoam's cost since 99-99.9% iso is $17 qt on Amazon. 

 

Ingredients
CAS # Wt.%
Pale Oil 64742-54-7 40.00 - 60.00 N/Av >15000 mg/kg >5000 mg/kg
Naphtha 64742-49-0 25.00 - 35.00 N/Av >5000 mg/kg N/Av
IPA 67-63-0 10.00 - 20.00 17000ppm 4720mg/kg 12890mg/kg

http://seafoamsales.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/MSDS_seafoam_EN.pdf

I would like to keep some of this versatile and useful stuff around, but it is about $10/pint at my local Auto Zone, which works out to 62 cents/oz. Luckily, the MSDS is available online and the composition is relatively simple: pale oil, naphtha, and IPA. Sea Foam Motor Treatment and Sea Foam Trans Tune are both made of the same three components, but they use slightly different ratios. Luckily, I can purchase these types of ingredients myself at many local stores. Also, this interesting excerpt was on the Sea Foam FAQ: "Sea Foam is composed solely of three specially blended petroleum oils each having specific functions such as lubricating, cleaning or moisture control. There are no other chemicals (not even color dyes) included in the formulation. Being of the same basic petroleum chemistry as the motor oils and gasoline you already use in your engine, Sea Foam is completely compatible with all engine components, fuels, lubricants and other additives you may have in your engine. Sea Foam will not damage gaskets or seals, and will not interact in a negative way with motor oil or fuel, or the additives used in them."

I chose to make a 45-35-20 mass ratio oil-naphtha-IPA solution for initial testing, which falls in the MSDS ranges specified for the two products. This solution maximizes the non-oil components within the specified ranges, but it is impossible to tell if this is closer to the motor treatment product or transmission treatment product on the first try. This DIY homebrew solution has similar composition to the commercial stuff and costs much less. This preliminary testing recipe is approximately: 6.5 oz pale oil, 6 oz naphtha, and 3.5 oz 91% isopropyl alcohol.

Edited by DennisThornton
as noted
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Jeff-C175
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

Pale Oil 64742-54-7 40.00 - 60.00 N/Av >15000 mg/kg >5000 mg/kg
Naphtha 64742-49-0 25.00 - 35.00 N/Av >5000 mg/kg N/Av
IPA 67-63-0 10.00 - 20.00 17000ppm 4720mg/kg 12890mg/kg

 

IPA eh?  I once used Lager in my radiator, but wouldn't put a good IPA in the gas tank!  :ychain:

 

I wonder what exactly is " PALE OIL " ?  I bet Mrs. Google would know!

 

Yup, she did!

image.png.4ee31fb888acb8fa1d7490b0e8bc50f0.png

 

Edited by Jeff-C175
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DennisThornton
2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

IPA eh?  I once used Lager in my radiator, but wouldn't put a good IPA in the gas tank!  :ychain:

 

I wonder what exactly is " PALE OIL " ?  I bet Mrs. Google would know!

 

pale oil - straight naphthenic mineral oil, straw or pale yellow in color, used as a once-through lubricant and in the formulation of process oils. See naphthene, straight mineral oil, once-through lubrication.

 

I really don't think it's anything special.

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Jeff-C175
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

mineral oil,

 

Wonder if that means the drug store kind?

I'm guessing yes.

 

But now I'm wondering what a "once-through lubricant" is ?  Let me ask the nice lady... 

 

She's so smart!

image.png.e02a91cbc5d43e6942eb7856b3977acb.png

 

Edited by Jeff-C175

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DennisThornton
Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Wonder if that means the drug store kind?

I'm guessing yes.

 

Most petroleum products are a range of distillates, and not an exact chemical.  Someone smarter than me might answer your question better.

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Jeff-C175
9 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Most petroleum products are a range of distillates, and not an exact chemical.  Someone smarter than me might answer your question better.

 

I think the drug store stuff might be the same but tested to be 'food grade' or 'pharma grade' with no nasty impurities.

 

I search Amazon for "pale oil" and I believe I've found something that they don't list!  Pale color oil paints came up by the dozens though!

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DennisThornton
2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I think the drug store stuff might be the same but tested to be 'food grade' or 'pharma grade' with no nasty impurities.

 

I search Amazon for "pale oil" and I believe I've found something that they don't list!  Pale color oil paints came up by the dozens though!

Sort of like naphtha, White gas, 100% Light Hydro Treated Distillate, or Coleman fuel.  Coleman might say there's is more refined, a higher grade and perhaps it is but it's still naptha at a premium price.  

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Wheel Horse 3D
2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

 

image.png.e02a91cbc5d43e6942eb7856b3977acb.png

 

Like the "Real McCoy" steam engine lubricator!

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Wheel Horse 3D

White gas, Naptha and some alcohol..very nice research there @DennisThornton!!!!!!:bow-blue:

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DennisThornton
2 minutes ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

White gas, Naptha and some alcohol..very nice research there @DennisThornton!!!!!!:bow-blue:

A light oil, naptha and isopropyl.  Hardly seems worth what they charge but I still buy some when it's on sale.

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Wheel Horse 3D
4 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

A light oil, naptha and isopropyl.  Hardly seems worth what they charge but I still buy some when it's on sale.

Gotcha, I was doubling up on the gas there...MIneral oil,Naptha aka white gas, and IPA. way cool to know!

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Maxwell-8
38 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

naptha

Zippo lighter fluid, only way to get naptha here but at 5$ for 125 ml it's liquid gold.

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DennisThornton
2 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Zippo lighter fluid, only way to get naptha here but at 5$ for 125 ml it's liquid gold.

Really?  Not even Coleman or some UK brand?  It's pricey enough here!

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Jeff-C175
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Coleman

 

I thought that Coleman fuel was an alcohol and quite a bit more flammable than Naphtha ?  Could be wrong though...  not going to bother nice Mrs. Google again today, she sounded annoyed the last time I asked her something.

 

So instead I asked Widipekia.

 

Quote

Historically called white gas (not white spirit), it is a liquid petroleum fuel (100% light hydrotreated distillate, composed of cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane.[1]

 

Then that led me to ask what is Naphtha and that is so non-descriptive as to not be an answer at all.

 

Quote

 

Naphtha (/ˈnæpθə/ or /ˈnæfθə/) is a flammable liquid hydrocarbon mixture.

Mixtures labelled naphtha have been produced from natural gas condensates, petroleum distillates, and the distillation of coal tar and peat.

In different industries and regions naphtha may also be crude oil or refined products such as kerosene. Mineral spirits, also historically known as "naphtha", is not the same chemical.

 

 

Edited by Jeff-C175

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Maxwell-8
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Really?  Not even Coleman or some UK brand?  It's pricey enough here!

nope. maybe industrial, but then only company's can buy it. All the camping stoves here work on butane. We do have White spirit and thinner

Edited by Maxwell-8

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DennisThornton
3 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I thought that Coleman fuel was an alcohol and quite a bit more flammable than Naphtha ?  Could be wrong though...  not going to bother nice Mrs. Google again today, she sounded annoyed the last time I asked her something.

Coleman is a high grade naphtha.  Lighter fluid in gallon cans.

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DennisThornton
1 minute ago, Maxwell-8 said:

nope. maybe industrial, but then only company's can buy it. All the camping stoves here work on butane. We do have White spirit and thinner

Wow.  "White spirits" won't work well in a white gas lamp, stove or lighter.

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Jeff-C175
1 hour ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

the "Real McCoy"

 

"Eh?  What's that you say Luke?  Pepino is doing something he oughtn't be doing down at the barn?"

 

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Wheel Horse 3D
8 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

"Eh?  What's that you say Luke?  Pepino is doing something he oughtn't be doing down at the barn?"

 

"Dammit Jim!, I'm only a Doctor!"

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Jeff-C175
4 minutes ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

"Dammit Jim!, I'm only a Doctor!"

 

"Hey! You're not a Doctor!  You're that siwwy wabbit ! "

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wb3evo

Most areas have a small airport close by. Within 20 to 30 miles at least. I go to the near me and fill two 5 gal  containers with aviation fuel. Pure gas. It is more expensive but it won't hurt you equipment. 

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Jeff-C175
Just now, wb3evo said:

Most areas have a small airport close by. Within 20 to 30 miles at least. I go to the near me and fill two 5 gal  containers with aviation fuel. Pure gas. It is more expensive but it won't hurt you equipment. 

 

They won't do that in Joisey.  Some kind of law.  We can't even pump our own gas.  That's against the law also.

 

73 OM!

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wb3evo

Two places I hate to drive through because of their archaic laws are New Jersey and New York. Law enforcement is not very friendly, even to retired Officers. They have some crazy notions about firearms, even to those of us who have Nation wide carry permits. 73s back to you my friend 

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ohiofarmer

Wow, Dennis, you really came through on the ingredients.This leads me to post something that I discovered by accident. Those same ingredients and maybe another or two are common in those  foaming penetrating oils . i discovered by accident that when they were sprayed and allowed to build up in plugged up areas of old motorcycle carburetors that they would produce a steady stream of bubbles for up to thirty minutes and eventually a plugged passage would open. i think the penetrating oils have a lot less carrying solvent.

  But now everybody has those ultrasonic cleaners and the usefulness of solvents has somewhat decreased.

There is a test on additives at Taryl where he starts 12 new engines once a month for over a year now. He uses two different fuels and probably ten different additives. There is some dust up with Donnyboy over some additive or other. He also stores gas+additive in vented glass jars to illustrate the changes to the fuel. When I store something over the winter, i usually use fuel treatment and then drain the tank out and save it for the farm truck or old car. The worst place for fuel going bad is the Honda or clone engines with that tiny little extra bowl. They actually turn green and usually there is water in the bottom.

 Ohio had nothing but E-10 for the longest time. Then Casey's came here and sold E- free and then quit. Now a local BP station sells it with a dedicated fuel hose so nothing gets mixed in.When I mow every few days, i use the E-10, but when mowing slows down and especially end of season, its E-0 with additive and i close the tank vent with a solid cap as well

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Jeff-C175
2 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

There is a test on additives at Taryl where he starts 12 new engines once a month for over a year now.

 

I saw that one too.  As I recall his conclusion was that there really was no definitive proof that the additives do anything at all.  But I still use them.

 

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