Tractor won't start, was running fine

[Dietz31684 8]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here. I inherited this and have used it a few times over the summer and recently to plow. It has run great so far. I went to start it and it tried to turn over a few times then the battery died before it could start, which is not out of the ordinary in cold weather. I put a charge on it, even tried jumping, and couldn't get it to respond. I turn the key and nothing, but the lights work fine. I even switched batteries to make sure that isn't the issue. 

 

I am not a mechanic by any stretch. I have a multimeter and can do some basic wrench spinning, especially after watching a YouTube video tutorial! 

 

So far I've checked the fuses and replaced them just to be sure. When I turn the key to the run position and checked the volts across the fuse block legs, the 15amp and 25amp fuses give me 12volts +/-. The 30amp fuse I'm getting 4.3 volts +/-. Is this a good place to start or is there a safety switch 'upstream' of the 30amp fuse circuit? Thanks a lot for any help!

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Is your battery showing at least 12.6V with your multimeter across the battery terminals? 

[Handy Don 12,103]

Hi. Welcome to the forum. We were all new here once and we can be a pretty helpful bunch.

This looks like a 416-H. It also seems like you could read and follow the wiring diagram if you had one, is that correct?

If you don't have the manuals, and can tell us the model and serial numbers on the tag next to the seat, it'll be a big help. There are a lot of tractors and wiring varies a lot!

 

Meantime, with that 4.3v reading and a charged good battery, the likeliest culprit is a bad connection in the starter circuit or in one of the safety circuits.

 

1st thing is to confirm that the PTO lever on the right side is disengaged.  The engine will NOT start if that is pushed forward.

2nd thing is to confirm that the motion control lever is in neutral (press hard on, and then release, the brake pedal to make sure)

 

Then, if that doesn't do it, and as crude as this sounds, wiggling wires one by one while a helper tries the starter often leads you to the connection needing help. Do you know what a solenoid is? It'll have some heavy wires connected to it down near the right front on the engine or the frame. That's where I'd start. When you come to the white 9-pin connector between the engine and the dashboard, look at it carefully for signs of overheating (brown discoloration).  Let us know!

 

[Achto 27,487]

 

If you don't have a manual with a wire diagram for your tractor feel free to grab one from our manuals section. A diagram will be very helpful to you when tracking down wiring issues.

 

Check your battery connections at the battery and also were the cables connect to the tractor. Check your safety switches - seat, pto, neutral, brake. You can also check your starter by using a heavy wire to jump across the 2 large terminals on the starter relay. This should make the starter engage.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Achto

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,022]

These are the numbers we need

[Lee1977 6,632]

First things  to check Seat Switch, PTO Safety Switches. and the Safety Switch on the Hydro Lever. I had to replace all of these and the Key Switch when I got my 520-H to make it dependable.

[lynnmor 7,300]

In your bottom photo of the fuse block you can see a white 9 pin connector.  Pull that connector apart and inspect for corrosion and burning, especially the red wire.  Likewise, pull the ignition switch connector and clean the terminals. Always keep a battery fully charged, allowing one to discharge as you described can destroy it, so after charging ten hours on a good charger, have it tested.

 

It appears that you have the battery resting on the rear stops of the battery tray, that wound be a good way to wear holes in the bottom of the battery case.

Edited February 16, 2021 by lynnmor

[Dietz31684 8]

9 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Hi. Welcome to the forum. We were all new here once and we can be a pretty helpful bunch.

This looks like a 416-H. It also seems like you could read and follow the wiring diagram if you had one, is that correct?

If you don't have the manuals, and can tell us the model and serial numbers on the tag next to the seat, it'll be a big help. There are a lot of tractors and wiring varies a lot!

 

Meantime, with that 4.3v reading and a charged good battery, the likeliest culprit is a bad connection in the starter circuit or in one of the safety circuits.

 

1st thing is to confirm that the PTO lever on the right side is disengaged.  The engine will NOT start if that is pushed forward.

2nd thing is to confirm that the motion control lever is in neutral (press hard on, and then release, the brake pedal to make sure)

 

Then, if that doesn't do it, and as crude as this sounds, wiggling wires one by one while a helper tries the starter often leads you to the connection needing help. Do you know what a solenoid is? It'll have some heavy wires connected to it down near the right front on the engine or the frame. That's where I'd start. When you come to the white 9-pin connector between the engine and the dashboard, look at it carefully for signs of overheating (brown discoloration).  Let us know!

 

 

Alright guys, I started with this post and figured it out. It's definitely a loose wire at that fuse block. Taking the above advise, I jammed something under the seat and started wiggling and turning the key. And once I got back to the fuse block and started wiggling I got it to fire! So I guess I'll try to see if it can be fixed or if a new fuse block is in order. Also, just to be sure, this is just the starting circuit and won't cause harm to run this way?  We have several inches of snow projected for Thursday here in PA so I'll probably try to plow once on Friday after it's done and I may not have it fixed for good by then.

 

I truly appreciate anyone who took the time to respond. This forum really is an amazing resource. I don't have the manual so thanks to Achto for the suggestion, I'll do that. 

[Dietz31684 8]

9 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Hi. Welcome to the forum. We were all new here once and we can be a pretty helpful bunch.

This looks like a 416-H. It also seems like you could read and follow the wiring diagram if you had one, is that correct?

If you don't have the manuals, and can tell us the model and serial numbers on the tag next to the seat, it'll be a big help. There are a lot of tractors and wiring varies a lot!

 

Meantime, with that 4.3v reading and a charged good battery, the likeliest culprit is a bad connection in the starter circuit or in one of the safety circuits.

 

1st thing is to confirm that the PTO lever on the right side is disengaged.  The engine will NOT start if that is pushed forward.

2nd thing is to confirm that the motion control lever is in neutral (press hard on, and then release, the brake pedal to make sure)

 

Then, if that doesn't do it, and as crude as this sounds, wiggling wires one by one while a helper tries the starter often leads you to the connection needing help. Do you know what a solenoid is? It'll have some heavy wires connected to it down near the right front on the engine or the frame. That's where I'd start. When you come to the white 9-pin connector between the engine and the dashboard, look at it carefully for signs of overheating (brown discoloration).  Let us know!

 

I hadn't checked the pto lever, so that and the brake thing were the first things I looked at after reading this. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

Regarding the wiring diagram, you are right on the 416h part. I would like to have that diagram for future reference. Here is that tag:

Edited February 16, 2021 by Dietz31684

[Dietz31684 8]

Also everyone, the white 9 pin looks good thankfully. I poked around on this site a little when I got the tractor and understand these can be a source of a lot of headaches. I'm thankful thats not my problem! 

[Dietz31684 8]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

In your bottom photo of the fuse block you can see a white 9 pin connector.  Pull that connector apart and inspect for corrosion and burning, especially the red wire.  Likewise, pull the ignition switch connector and clean the terminals. Always keep a battery fully charged, allowing one to discharge as you described can destroy it, so after charging ten hours on a good charger, have it tested.

 

It appears that you have the battery resting on the rear stops of the battery tray, that wound be a good way to wear holes in the bottom of the battery case.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll check the positioning. Regarding the battery, it had it tested at the auto store and they said it wouldn't test, indicating some internal damage. It has been replaced.

[Dietz31684 8]

So it's not the fuse block. It's this power wire going into the relay (?) Just next to the fuse box. Glad I have it narrowed down and I can consistently start it at least.

 

[953 nut 54,979]

10 minutes ago, Dietz31684 said:

It's this power wire going into the relay (?) Just next to the fuse box. Glad I have it narrowed down and I can consistently start it at least.

             Glad you isolated the problem, wouldn't hurt to clean and tighten all electrical connections including grounds. A little bit of corrosion can rob a lot of voltage from you electrical system.

[peter lena 8,576]

DIETZ31684, had a nagging similar starting issue on mine, was not until i removed the lower dash panel , under steering column that i found the problem, a multiple joint connector , was corroded and split , causing erratic , start and light issues, used a jumper to verify power , and cut out and replaced entire connector , dielectric grease each slide on and added wire to eliminate wire strain and chafe .  no more start problems , pete  

[lynnmor 7,300]

There may be a sticker saying that you should not run without a battery.  If a bad connection takes the battery out of circuit, that is the same as no battery.  Be sure that you are getting charge voltage at the battery while running which is about 14 volts.

[Dietz31684 8]

17 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

Be sure that you are getting charge voltage at the battery while running which is about 14 volts.

Edited since I figured out what u meant, just start and measure the volts..

 

Yep, 14.3 while running. 12.5 when off.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Dietz31684

[lynnmor 7,300]

Just now, Dietz31684 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but how do I accomplish this?

Connect a voltmeter across the battery terminals.  If you don't have one, you can buy at Harbor Freight for little money, they are good enough for occasional use.

[Dietz31684 8]

Another more general question. I just noticed some cut/worn insulation coming out of the harness too. I can simply cut, solder, and shrink wrap these to repair. But the way the hood comes down seems like this is just waiting to happen again. It looks like the little 'shelf' on the hood which seats on the dash hits these wires. Not sure if this is normal but I'd like to maybe fabricate a simple hard plastic shroud to prevent further damage. Is this is a typical issue or something is off? Note that the battery holder is off and the battery is slid back in these photos.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,022]

 

[peter lena 8,576]

newbie, think you hit on it, or a big part of it , think i would unbolt that wire plug in to verify its total possible chafing issue , would also add a another  ground wire to the area , from corner of engine block to the battery ground rail along side of battery , those frayed wires are collectively starving your power flow. would not hesitate to relocate wire faults and use "  wire wrap " to  prevent future problems. used a number of " alligator  wire clips  "  on trace wire to simplify fault finding . pete  

[peter lena 8,576]

newbie, alligator clip wires  ,make wire tracing easier ,https://www.amazon.com/WGGE-WG-026-Pieces-Colors-Alligator/dp/B06XX25HFX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA962BBhCzARIsAIpWEL0B6JylcMXmyXacBi_tZNbDmIaMVVTpCIC9w5Q8Kn-vxPWSk3vcDcIaAlI9EALw_wcB&hvadid=409956788311&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003307&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=10980907915876131939&hvtargid=kwd-13584875685&hydadcr=24634_11410133&keywords=alligator+wire+clips&qid=1613497763&sr=8-1-spons&tag=googhydr-20&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQ0VEUlpXUVBDQkxRJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTI1Mjc4MlFENVM1WExYMlE0QiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDA0MjI5M0pSSzYyUVpPQklWRCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=  pete

[Pullstart 62,721]

 @Dietz31684!

[Handy Don 12,103]

5 hours ago, Dietz31684 said:

Another more general question. I just noticed some cut/worn insulation coming out of the harness too. I can simply cut, solder, and shrink wrap these to repair. But the way the hood comes down seems like this is just waiting to happen again. It looks like the little 'shelf' on the hood which seats on the dash hits these wires. Not sure if this is normal but I'd like to maybe fabricate a simple hard plastic shroud to prevent further damage. Is this is a typical issue or something is off? Note that the battery holder is off and the battery is slid back in these photos.

 

 

You are doing just fine by being observant and thorough. I'm glad you can have it running when you need it and will get after those maintenance/repair items soon.

You'll notice the varied approaches of some members to trouble shooting and repairs. Take ALL OF US with a grain of salt and choose your own comfortable path! If you have any questions on the wiring diagram that our (terrific) moderator posted, come right back and ask.

Good luck with the snow!

[sparkie333 265]

On 2/16/2021 at 6:06 AM, Dietz31684 said:

So it's not the fuse block. It's

HI; Glad to have you. I was looking at this plug and the first thing I would do is to clean all that old grass under the plug out  I would un plug and you would prob. find the pins all pins need to be cleaned up. that trash can get into all connectors.----Good Luck.