Different track setup.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Don't know if I posted an example in this thread but coil over shocks have been used and I think that is a great approach.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

In this video, you can see that he has a big CMU (concrete masonry unit) on the frame of the idlers that is giving downforce to both the drive wheels and the idlers. In his recap of pros and cons, he mentioned that the idler axles were bending with the weight, so it'd have to be better distributed

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTUogBGcAnU

 

I did see the concrete block so I did see at least one attempt to add weight but many haven't.  I'd want filled tires and wheel weights AND a load above AND I think a coil over shock.

[ebinmaine 63,214]

25 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

That ought to give good weight and fairly even distribution 

Agreed. 

8 x 24" pieces are 55 lbs each. Easy to add. 

[ebinmaine 63,214]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

In his recap of pros and cons, he mentioned that the idler axles were bending with the weight, so it'd have to be better distributed

I'm thinking I'd go with bigger idler axles. Inch maybe?

I'd want to be confident the IDLERS would support the weight. 

Not just the drives. 

 

Overkill?

Not on my terrain. 

[Oldskool 6,582]

24 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm thinking I'd go with bigger idler axles. Inch maybe?

I'd want to be confident the IDLERS would support the weight. 

Not just the drives. 

 

Overkill?

Not on my terrain. 

Overkill almost never disappoints.

[Handy Don 10,635]

4 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

almost

[Oldskool 6,582]

So now we have the idler and drive wheel part of this almost figured out it's about time to start thinking track construction.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

4 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

So now we have the idler and drive wheel part of this almost figured out it's about time to start thinking track construction.

Rear drive?  Pivoting, coil over shock rear axle with matching tires?

Tracks?  I'm leaning to chain and steel bars.  Bent shallow U rebar welded to a chain link.  Simple and about as cheap as anything.

 

Size of chains?  Rebar size?  5/8" rebar and spaced out to look "right" and then choose chain size.  I know I don't like 4-link tire chains at all but that might be enough for tracks.  Could always add more and it depends on what size the chain links are too.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

This was a aftermarket kit for GTs and ATVs so I assume a lot of thought went into it.  Yet I'm not sure all this is needed.  Much more complicated than others.

#1:  We are discussing not using item 1 and I see no advantage to having it outside where others build the frame inside of the rears.  

#2:  Is an idler really needed here?  Especially if item 3 is the same size as the drive tire?  

#3:  There's clearance to the seat/fender pan to allow for a full 12" wheel and tire in the rear so why not take advantage of that?

 

This

[Oldskool 6,582]

24 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Rear drive?  Pivoting, coil over shock rear axle with matching tires?

Tracks?  I'm leaning to chain and steel bars.  Bent shallow U rebar welded to a chain link.  Simple and about as cheap as anything.

 

Size of chains?  Rebar size?  5/8" rebar and spaced out to look "right" and then choose chain size.  

Every other link?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 minute ago, Oldskool said:

Every other link?

Probably best, but maybe not necessary.  

[Oldskool 6,582]

10 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

This was a aftermarket kit for GTs and ATVs so I assume a lot of thought went into it.  Yet I'm not sure all this is needed.  Much more complicated than others.

#1:  We are discussing not using item 1 and I see no advantage to having it outside where others build the frame inside of the rears.  

#2:  Is an idler really needed here?  Especially if item 3 is the same size as the drive tire?  

#3:  There's clearance to the seat/fender pan to allow for a full 12" wheel and tire in the rear so why not take advantage of that?

 

This

I would think the bottom idler would be more important than the top.

 

I assume item 1 is what holds all that together and the tensioner as well.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

2 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

I would think the bottom idler would be more important than the top.

 

I assume item 1 is what holds all that together and the tensioner as well.

I should have mentioned 4 items.  Why bother with the top idler if #1 is a tensioner?

Same assumption here on item #1. 

What bothers me is that people that I assume make a lot of money thought all that was needed and I want to toss all of it.  But I've seen several other examples that seem to work with these items.

[Oldskool 6,582]

Just now, DennisThornton said:

I should have mentioned 4 items.  Why bother with the top idler if #1 is a tensioner?

Same assumption here on item #1. 

What bothers me is that people that I assume make a lot of money thought all that was needed and I want to toss all of it.  But I've seen several other examples that seem to work with these items.

Just look at any dozer,excavator ,skid steer snowmobile, etc. I think its necessary to a point. Even a conveyor belt

[ebinmaine 63,214]

But the isavetractors one has no idler...

[DennisThornton 4,769]

16 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

But the isavetractors one has no idler...

Several have no idler and seem to work.  However, I like prototype designs that have options.  Better to plan ahead in case something is needed.  If possible...

[Oldskool 6,582]

24 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

But the isavetractors one has no idler...

But it's an open track. Alot of space between cleats. Fine for hard flat surfaces. Not for off road. Without idlers it will twist and walk around alot. Just think of the sticks and stumps that could come up thru it.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Oldskool

[ebinmaine 63,214]

24 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

But it's an open track. Alot of space between cleats. Fine for hard flat surfaces. Not for off road. Without idlers it will twist and walk around alot. Just think of the sticks and stumps that could come up thru it.

Yep yep yep.....

I was kinda thinking maybe a flat plate there?

Or are the idlers full width?

 

 

[Oldskool 6,582]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

Yep yep yep.....

I was kinda thinking maybe a flat plate there?

Or are the idlers full width?

 

 

From what I've seen if it has a drive chain it's a narrow idler in the middle. Snowmobiles have 1 on each side.. No drive chain. The idlers on the bottom also would keep the track tight over rough terrain keeping the downward force even over the whole length. Without then most of the force is in  1 or 2 places. Snowmobiles now have sliders because go keep the track flat on the snow

[Handy Don 10,635]

The snowmobile tracks are often not as aggressively textured, either. Lots of bogie wheels distributes the load and lets the track conform to the terrain so no one spot is too heavy.

 

[Oldskool 6,582]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

The snowmobile tracks are often not as aggressively textured, either. Lots of bogie wheels distributes the load and lets the track conform to the terrain so no one spot is too heavy.

 

Things have changed a bit from the old bogie style.

[ebinmaine 63,214]

Rugged tread on that bugger too. 

 

For us in p'tic'lar it'd be for snow so I'd figure we want a pretty aggressive tread. 

 

[Oldskool 6,582]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Rugged tread on that bugger too. 

 

For us in p'tic'lar it'd be for snow so I'd figure we want a pretty aggressive tread. 

 

Something like that would work better then an open track in the snow for sure

[Oldskool 6,582]

I think they call it a Cross Country track

[ebinmaine 63,214]

Just now, Oldskool said:

Cross Country track

Looks right by search. 

 

I'm picturing some sort of maybe 1.5" wide x 1.5" deep C channel welded to a row of chain. Attached wherever convenient then tightened with the idler set being adjustable. 

 

 

Front skis would likely start as (4 x 8"?) Hemlock rough sawn and be refined to a proper shape.