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TC10284

417A - KT17QS - No Spark

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TC10284

I have a 417A that was running up until this past fall/winter set in. Prior to this, it ran great, but was ALWAYS a hard start when cold. I took lots of turning over and dumping gas into the carb. 

But as mentioned, when it ran, it ran great. 

I have already replaced the plugs with new ones today and that did no good. 

So I tried a spark tool to see if it was getting spark and I don't see any. I replaced the the points a couple years ago with my dad. But I'm not experienced with replacing, checking, or adjusting points, so I might need help with that if someone suggests that as a possible issue. 

 

Lastly, is this a series 1 or 2 KT17? 

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qEg5tBdRTGQ8186p7

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gwest_ca

Click on the picture in the link

 

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TC10284

Thanks!

 

Is this a points issue, or something else like a coil? 

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953 nut
10 hours ago, TC10284 said:

ALWAYS a hard start when cold. I took lots of turning over and dumping gas into the carb.

Your fuel tank is mounted under the seat and the fuel pump is on top of the engine so it take a lot of vacuum to lift the fuel that far, As fuel pumps age the internal valves leak which causes this problem. You could add a priming bulb (see thread below) or an electric fuel pump to cure this situation.

 

10 hours ago, TC10284 said:

I'm not experienced with replacing, checking, or adjusting points, so I might need help with that if someone suggests that as a possible issue.

It may be as simple as cleaning the point contacts. Open the points and slip a dollar bill between the contact points and let them close, now pull the dollar bill through the points to remove and corrosion that may be there.

Also, with the key in the run position check to see that you have 12 volts DC at the "+" side of the ignition coil. Let us know what you find.

 

 

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gwest_ca

Could be either.

 

You have a battery type of ignition meaning the ignition coil requires battery voltage at the (+) terminal in both the RUN and START key positions.

If you have that check the voltage at the coil (-) terminal. When the points are open you should have 12 volts and when the points are closed you should have 0 volts. This switching back and forth is what causes the coil to produce the spark. 

 

Points are the most common cause of no spark. They can be closed but fail to ground the coil because of invisible corrosion on the contact surfaces. Use a nail file to clean up the points and drag a strip of clean white paper through the contacts to remove any contamination.

 

You can use a voltmeter or test light for the test.

Let us know what you find.

 

Garry

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953 nut
12 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

The points cycle one time for every two revolutions of the engine crankshaft.

:twocents-02cents:     On a twin the points will open once per revaluation, the spark plugs fire at the top of the compression and exhaust strokes.

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TC10284

OK so it was finally nice enough outside and I had some "free time" to look into this again. I used a fingernail file to clean the points. Hopefully that didn't mess up anything. 

 

After that, I still could not get it to run. I turned it over and watched the points and it would occasionally have a small spark visible. You can also see it in the video. 

The rear plug is getting what looks like a good spark. It is a new plug and I've also checked with a spark tester cable. I can see the spark when I remove the plug and touch to metal on the engine.

The front plug is also new and is either getting very weak spark or no spark. When I removed the plug, I see no spark whatsoever no matter what I touch it to. The spark tester cable shows a weak spark. 


So then I tried swapping the plug wire and test the same spark plug. No change. 

Then I tried swapping the spark plug. No change.

 

It appears that the top connector on the coil isn't providing spark. This is the front cylinder.  And I noticed the coil gets pretty warm after a bit of cranking. 

 

I dumped fuel directly into the carb and got nothing. Not a single hit. 

 

And just for the heck of it, I checked compression and got 92 on front cyl and 90 on rear cyl. 

 

Should I try a new coil? 

 

Pics and video: 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9FxVGtzCKUrDVudy9

Edited by TC10284

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953 nut
30 minutes ago, TC10284 said:

Should I try a new coil?

Based on what you have observed it sounds like you could have a bad condenser. Remove the condenser wire from the "-" side of your coil and see if things improve, if not then the coil may be the problem.

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pacer

I'm leaning toward it being the coil ----- I guess mainly because I have had 3 failures and have read of many on the forum here, sorta seems the KT17 likes to eat coils......

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pfrederi

3 C-175 s no coil issues... Check condeser and power to coil

 

 

Edited by pfrederi
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TC10284

Success! 
I put on the new coil, and swapped the condenser with one I tested. 
At first, it would hit once. It did this a few times. Kept at it and it finally hit a few times and cut off regardless of choke. Kept on and she finally caught and stayed running! Cut it off for a few minutes, started right back up again. 

Edited by TC10284
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