A Tecumseh Tale

[Gregor 4,838]

I watched a video yesterday make by an actual Tecumseh technician, on timing a Tecumseh motor. I got some good tips. I would pay a LOT of money for tool number 670241. It is a dial indicator, you can insert through the sprark plug hole, that has a tab on the bottom, that extends over the piston. With this tool you can check timing without removing the head. I am sitting here just waiting on parts now. The worn key way, and the fact that my flywheel was rubbing on the magneto, made me suspect a possible bent crank, so I ordered a new one. The key fits snug in the flywheel. According to the technician, the timing can be off as much as .005 either way, and the engine will run fine.

 

One thing that does puzzle me.....When the engine is assembled, it is hard to turn over by hand, with or without the spark plug in. Of course, at pushing 70, that could just be me, and nothing to do with the engine. I know my starter won't turn it.

[ebinmaine 63,349]

If you've bench tested your starter using jumper cables and you feel that it is in working order it should be able to turn that engine over with absolutely no issues if the spark plug is out. 

 

I'd take a guess on the RPMs ... I would say at least 200, 300?

 

[305 380]

i have wanted one of those tools for a long time , but with them usually bringing around $100 on ebay i have not pulled the trigger on one

Edited December 30, 2020 by 305

[wallfish 15,972]

5 hours ago, Gregor said:

When the engine is assembled, it is hard to turn over by hand, with or without the spark plug in.

The engine should turn fairly easily.without the plug installed. Are the magnets still rubbing the laminated piece?

[Gregor 4,838]

No. It's rather hard to turn without the flywheel on.

[Tractorhead 8,614]

How deep you have teared down the Engine?

 

 

Your descriptin sounds to me, there was something mechanically wrong.

 

As you told, it even turns hard without flywheel, there must may be something wrong while reassembling IMHO.

Maybe piston inserted in wrong direction or even connecting rod or camshaft is not right aligned or whatever.

i would verify that again before i try it more often with that cause to get it to run.

So maybe the hard turning of the engine is possibly just a result of that.

 

Just thoughts.

[Gregor 4,838]

With it being hard to turn, and the rubbing on the magneto coil, it made me suspect a bent crank.  Without chucking it up in a lathe, I don't know a good way to test for this, but if it is bent, it may be putting a bind between the crank and the piston. Then again it may be turning fine, and it's just me. I'm as good once as I ever was, but I'm not as good as I once was.

[Gregor 4,838]

I have this motor partially assembled. It has the crank, sump cover, rod, piston, rings, flywheel, and head. No spark plug, and only 2 bolts in the head. I installed the starter, and the starter spins it fine. It does not have the magneto assembly in it. When I get all my parts, and get it fully assembled, we'll see what happens.

[Tractorhead 8,614]

Did you check, if the Flywheel was spinning only with the starter does it wobble a little?

 

If not, you may can insert the Magneto groundplane and verify if it scratches after that.

 

maybe the crankshaft cover was closed without a Seal, that reduces the gap and pre press the crankshaft a little.

so it seems to be bent, but in truth it have just a litte too much prespan.

 

may be a cause

[Gregor 4,838]

As far as condensers for small engines being the same, that's not exactly true, at least price wise. Condenser on the right from farm store for Kohler.$26. Condenser on the left, ordered from NAPA for Tecumseh, $6  I don't have anything that will measure mfd.I wish I could find a meter that could measure mfd, and small ohm values, (1 or less) accurately, without having to spend hundreds of $$$$$

[Gregor 4,838]

I know you are probably getting tired of hearing about this H70, (still waiting on parts) but here is yet another oddity. When I got this motor the shroud indicated it was an H60. I now know it is an H70, by checking the bore and piston size, and the crank rod journal.  I checked parts listing diagrams. The H60 and the H70 take the same flywheel, motor shroud, flywheel screen, starter cup, recoil starter assembly, baffle plate, the same sump cover, the same exhaust valve, even the head is the same. The block itself is different, I assume due to the larger bore size. So what might be the reason for this? As you can see, the starter cup is not centered in the shroud. Not really expecting an answer, just thought it odd, and another problem to overcome.The pinion gear from the starter fits in the opening as it should.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gregor

[Tractorhead 8,614]

7 minutes ago, Gregor said:

As far as condensers for small engines being the same, that's not exactly true, at least price wise. Condenser on the right from farm store for Kohler.$26. Condenser on the left, ordered from NAPA for Tecumseh, $6  I don't have anything that will measure mfd.I wish I could find a meter that could measure mfd, and small ohm values, (1 or less) accurately, without having to spend hundreds of $$$$$

 

Take a closer look on little better clamp Amp meters..

i bought myself a „cheap“ Clamp Ammeter, what have follow items.

Voltage

Amps (AC/DC) up to 600A

Indicator light  Phase finder (110-230V AC) works up to 8 cm distance

Ohms

Hz

Temperature ( with separate Sensor) was in the Box included.

Capacity.

 

The Brandname is a „Vicky“ - made in china

The price was just 50$ but is relativeley exact in it measured Values.

Not really Calibrated like for a professional use, but for Hobby use accurate enough.

 

Compared it with my ABB Meter it differs only a little in 2. value after comma.

Actual i preferr this, because lot‘s of Values can be tested with.

 

If you look for a meter look for the DC able Clamp ammeters.

They be accurate enough, to measure Amps you don‘t need to put it into circuit,

just clamp it over a single Wire and voila you got the Amps, they flow thru the Wire.

 

About the Capacitors

i didn‘t say they be exact the same, but they all be close enough to be Usable.

This condensers are frequency depending units, they work all in nearly the same range.

from 1000 RPM up to 4000 RPM. So their Value ca not be tooo differently,

except in the Prices and their dimension and their dielectric Strenght.

The Capacity differs, but not in a completely unusable range.

You just have the need, to mount it as close to the points as possible.

 

By the Way i make 2 Pict‘s for you, to give you a Point to start with your Ignition Settings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

when you have a closer look, there is a mark near the Condenser,

that aligns in my Tecky with it‘s right sided mounting point.

 

i hope that pict is helpful for you.

 

under the cablestrap is another Mark i checked with a caliper, 

the exact distance between this both marks is 7,3mm.

 

Stefan

[ebinmaine 63,349]

21 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I know you are probably getting tired of hearing about this H70, (still waiting on parts) but here is yet another oddity. When I got this motor the shroud indicated it was an H60. I now know it is an H70, by checking the bore and piston size, and the crank rod journal.  I checked parts listing diagrams. The H60 and the H70 take the same flywheel, motor shroud, flywheel screen, starter cup, recoil starter assembly, baffle plate, the same sump cover, the same exhaust valve, even the head is the same. The block itself is different, I assume due to the larger bore size. So what might be the reason for this? As you can see, the starter cup is not centered in the shroud. Not really expecting an answer, just thought it odd, and another problem to overcome.The pinion gear from the starter fits in the opening as it should.

I'd say that's a different generation of block and shroud.    Guessing, mind you. 

[Tractorhead 8,614]

19 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I know you are probably getting tired of hearing about this H70, (still waiting on parts) but here is yet another oddity. When I got this motor the shroud indicated it was an H60. I now know it is an H70, by checking the bore and piston size, and the crank rod journal.  I checked parts listing diagrams. The H60 and the H70 take the same flywheel, motor shroud, flywheel screen, starter cup, recoil starter assembly, baffle plate, the same sump cover, the same exhaust valve, even the head is the same. The block itself is different, I assume due to the larger bore size. So what might be the reason for this? As you can see, the starter cup is not centered in the shroud. Not really expecting an answer, just thought it odd, and another problem to overcome.The pinion gear from the starter fits in the opening as it should.

 

Was that happened before?

maybe forgotten the Head Gasket?

 

just wonder about, because i reworked my Engine yesterday.

 

here few Picts of.

 

 

the reason i did this, thinking it would be more worse than it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

Thank you for the pics. Is that an H70 or H60?

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gregor

[Tractorhead 8,614]

Mine is marked as an HH60 on the Plate.

 

The Gasket i buyed is marked for h60 and h70.

it is 4 mm thick, what seems to be your misalign.

that‘s the reason i ask for the Gasket.

 

Tightened the Headbolts in 5 Steps.

tightened in the manual given order

1. tightened by hand

2. 10 nm. 2 min break

3. 16 nm. 10 min break

4. 21 nm. Let it sat overnight.

next day oilchange than fire it up for an 10 min half throttle testrun.

5. 24 nm. And recheck all Bolts.

 

let it cool completely down 2h 

fire it again up for my Coil measurings and let it run for 1/2 h in 1/3 throttle.

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

I actually have 3 new head gaskets here. Still in the package, and a new one on the motor. None of the come close to 4 mm thick. 1.58 mm

[Tractorhead 8,614]

Hum, don‘t know why mine was that thick, but it works.

to be exactly it is 3,78mm

 

As far as i remember your Engine was complete before and running right ?

even it runn‘s not nice, it was in running condition as i remember.

 

So while disassemble it, did you do step by step pictures?

kept the old parts?

maybe that can clear up, what is now wrong with your Engine.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Gregor 4,838]

It ran once since I first assembled it. It ran for a bit, sputtered, popped, sheared the key, and quit. Quite possible it sheared the key, then ran, sputtered, popped and quit. It's never ran for any length of time since. The key way in the crank has a lot of play. I have a new crank on the way. Waiting on the new crank, and points. I have everything else.

[Tractorhead 8,614]

3 minutes ago, Gregor said:

It ran once since I first assembled it. It ran for a bit, sputtered, popped, sheared the key, and quit. Quite possible it sheared the key, then ran, sputtered, popped and quit. It's never ran for any length of time since. The key way in the crank has a lot of play. I have a new crank on the way. Waiting on the new crank, and points. I have everything else.

 

Keep posted if things are at your site.

We will net this Engine running, better sooner than later.

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

On 12/25/2020 at 4:01 AM, Tractorhead said:

@Gregor when i see it running it seems very stable and no smoker.

That‘s a great base you have now.

 

When i checked the spark on my H60, i found out that my Ignition sometimes missing a ignition while running.

I checked this with an old car Ignition stobe flasher that indicates pretty well even on the h60 and hh60 engines.

The missing ignition while running could be the condenser or also the Points, but however it was

it‘s not a way i like to go, so i decided to replace the Points and condenser to breakerless ignition.

 

After some research i found it can be done with a simple module. 

I ordered it allready, but it‘s still on the Way.

 

 

about the E- starter

i found the original starter was to weak to turn the Engine at all.

The compression on my Engine indicates that the Engine seems to be worn out.

 

Maybe the stater have a defect on a Coil and/or worn contacts - however.

So i ordered a replacement starter, that turned the Engine much quicker.

but i primary pullstart my Engine, even it have an E- starter.

 

 

For a pullstart- i found a good practice how it can be done simply on my Engine.

when inpulled it immediately full, it sometimes hit my wrist also.

 

So i did it that Way:

 

1. pull choke as needed at least half.

2. Set throttle to 1/3

3. pull first time very gently and slow just a bit over the compression point.

4. than release the pullstartrope back completely and do a fast pull to fire it up.

 

dont forget to switch the ignition on after pull over the compression point.

 

 

with this practice my Engine fires at least on second start allway‘s up.

this practice is also a good protection to your wrist, because Flywheel gets a prerotation for next compressionphase. So even a backfire will not hit that strong to your hand.

 

About that breakerless ignition i will post my results if it was delivered and rewoked in detail.

Tractorhead  Did you ever receive that breaker-less ignition module?

[Tractorhead 8,614]

Nope, DPD is not the reliablest here

the seller they send it out last year 12/26 and it should arrive on 12/29.

 

In ebay they set it to delivered on 12/29, but in tracking they set it on 12/30 back in Station

canot be delivered -  difference found that is definitely a lie.

Nobody was here to deliver something, because the be allowed to lay it in front of the door.

 

It shall be delivered today, curious if they will do, otherwise i have to have a phone call .

 

[Gregor 4,838]

I ordered a part on ebay Nov 17. I got it on Dec 11. And it was wrong.

 

[Tractorhead 8,614]

5 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I ordered a part on ebay Nov 17. I got it on Dec 11. And it was wrong.

 

 

Yap, it seems covid and also the lockdowns show’s their footprints on some, 
make myself also an oops, by doing things too fast.

 

Tried to add a Predator on my watchlist, but while i’m in a hurry, i hit instead of the buy it button. 😎

a short thinkering and i hit the „yeah i will Button“.

I be sure that must be caused of the Mask... 😷 and less oxygen to myself.. 😂😂😂😂

 

Ok, so if it’s be delivered i have an Engine in spare.. 😇  - it’s allway’s better to have than to need 😂
 

[Gregor 4,838]

I have been watching this video on the Nova 2 ignition module. I don't know.. Doesn't sound like it will work for a 3 leg coil. Hope it does