Misfire query

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

The engine is supposedly a 1979 model but I don't know if there are any other indicators to give an idea if the flywheel or blower cover may be wrong.

I will be able to say a bit more when the flywheel is off but I will need a puller to remove it. 

Thats a job for tomorrow. 

Thanks for all the comments so far, together we will get it running again. 

Mick  

[953 nut 59,996]

4 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Some older K series the timing hole was on the back of the shroud,

As far as I know the flywheels that had timing marks that were viewed from the back of the bearing plate were Starter/Generator engines (see photo) and wouldn't have the ring gear. Is there an arrow or mark cast into the bearing cover that would line up with the TDC and SP marks with the piston up?

Do you know what the Spec. Number of the engine is?                        Might have been intended for an application where the standard sight hole would be covered.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by 953 nut

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Well the mystery of the timing marks was solved at 6 am GMT today....

I made a puller for the flywheel and found the key had indeed sheared in two. Never seen anything quite like it.

This photo shows the end of the crank shaft with the flywheel still on. The key ways can be seen almost 180 degrees opposite each other.

And this image shows the end of the crank shaft with the sheared key. 

As I said, never seen a key bitten in half like that! Must have been some major kick back to cause that.

I will try to restore everything but if it fails again it will be a new engine I think.

Mick 

[953 nut 59,996]

That would explain the vibration, the flywheel is balanced to the crankshaft.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,482]

The key just locates the flywheel on the crankshaft for timing and balance.

It is the clean and dry taper with the specified nut torque that holds it there.

Briggs uses aluminum keys to stress the point.

 

Garry

[lynnmor 7,817]

Nailed it just 16 minutes after your original post, at my age I gotta' boast when I can!

 

The shaft taper and the bore needs to be as clean and true as you can get them.  After removing the unwanted metal, you might get a better fit if you lap them together using very fine lapping compound.  A taper needs to be a good fit to get the locking action you need.

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Well done Lynnmor. 

I was not aware the key could shear as it did so it was one of the last things I checked.

I will address the other issues such as the carb and ignition system now its stripped down.

I've ordered new key steel and head gasket so when they arrive I can start rebuilding. 

I've also ordered a new torque wrench so I can check the flywheel and head studs accurately. 

 

[sqrlgtr 705]

Well done, glad you got it figured out sure is nice to have so many knowledgeable people on here to help out!!!!Again 👍 

[Handy Don 14,062]

5 hours ago, Mickwhitt said:

I was not aware the key could shear as it did so it was one of the last things I checked.

 

The first time I encountered one of these was this past summer when a fellow I know showed me the two year old, mint condition 20hp twin-cylinder Cub Cadet tractor he'd just bought for $200. Seller couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run right and had given up on it. Sheared key. $10 and two hours work later it ran like a top. Seeing is believing.

 

[953 nut 59,996]

6 hours ago, Mickwhitt said:

ordered a new torque wrench so I can check the flywheel

When torquing the flywheel I use a piece of angle iron about two feet long bolted to the flywheel (at the fan cover holes) to pull against.

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Does anyone have the torque setting for the flywheel nut?

 

The manual does not give a value for the K301 engine.

 

Mick 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,482]

Page 12-16 in the service manual for K241-K341

Garry

[Pullstart 66,750]

Hey @Mickwhitt what were you doing when this happened?  You mentioned the clutch plate shattered...  Leroy was just employed to clean up some deer trails during our gun season break between shotguns and muzzle loading.  As soon as I engaged the mower deck, bang pop spit backfire huge fire balls out the stack, etc.  now, no start.  My first thought was excess fuel in the stack again so that was the first to go.  Then I remembered your key way issue.

 

 

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Kev , I was just running the engine in the yard, not stressing it at all.

 

I can't say what led to the flywheel coming loose but it did make one heck of a bang. I maybe did not torque it up properly on the first rebuild.

 

The shock shattered the clutch plate sending bits everywhere.

 

The new exhaust is the major modification that may have had a bearing on things. But I don't know, I will look at it when I get things running again.

 

I will be rebuilding things very carefully to double check everything. 

 

Its all good practice lol.

 

Mick

 

 

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Key steel has arrived so I will be refitting the flywheel tomorrow,  see what that shows with the timing.

If all looks OK I will get on with the carb refurbishment and be ready for the new head gasket coming. 

 

[lynnmor 7,817]

Lay the cleaned head on the cleaned block and check that it holds a .004" feeler gauge everywhere.  Since you had dark spots on the head gasket, pay particular attention to those areas.

[Ranger521vx 1]

Location of the points on a d160 one cylinder seems to be not firing!

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ranger521vx

[pfrederi 18,670]

1 hour ago, Ranger521vx said:

Location of the points on a d160 one cylinder seems to be not firing!

 

 

Welcome.  You should start a new post on this issue.

Kohler D series twins fire on every revolution.  One cylinder is on compression but one is on exhaust s that spark is "wasted".  That it runs on one cylinder indicates points are OK but issue is either the spark plug, the wire to it or the coil itself (it is a dual coil).  Try switching the plug wires should run on the other cylinder....

Edited December 5, 2020 by pfrederi

[953 nut 59,996]

6 hours ago, Ranger521vx said:

Location of the points on a d160 one cylinder seems to be not firing!

 

 

Your ignition points on any single cylinder Kohler K series will be below the exhaust down near the bottom. Click on this link and ask any engine related questions you may have.   https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/41-engines/?do=add

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Well its rebuilt and running.

I've ordered a timing light so I can check the timing while running.

But for now it looks to be not far off and certainly better than before the flywheel sheared the key.

 

 

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Timing light arrived so had a go with it. Mixed results, im not sure the right rev to check the timing at but I do get the S mark in the window.

While adjusting the points while the engine was running I noticed the sparking at the points. I tried the new smaller capacitor and it looked to me that the sparking was less when the slightly higher rated new capacitor was in use.

I guess the sparking will never stop but the right size capacitor will reduce damage to the points.

Mick 

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

I built a little static timing light to make timing a bit easier.

 

Just a test lamp coupled to battery positive and a croc clip to the points.

 

You can then trun the engine to find when the points break and check the timing mark pretty easily. 

 

A lot better than a multi meter or test screwdriver.

 

[Mickwhitt 5,131]

Can anyone give me an engine speed to set the timing with a timing light please.

Mick 

[pfrederi 18,670]

Except for pre ACR models timing never changes on these engines there is no vacuum advance or counter weights like on a car.