Flat PTO Clutch on C-195

[mpoore 26]

I have an 84 C-195, which I bought with a flat PTO clutch. This was my first WH purchase and I did not know the difference. The problem is that the clutch slips with a 48" mower deck. It is adjusted as far as it will go. There is plenty of friction material. The flat clutch is obviously less beefy than the cone clutch, but I have read others using it successfully. Is there any known issues with retrofitting a flat clutch to a C-195 with the original Kohler engine? The only solution I can see is making a shim to tighten the clutch. I think I could rebuild a cone clutch, if I could find one. It seems like a lot of guys mention having worn out cone clutches. Anyone willing to sell one?

Edited May 26, 2020 by mpoore

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,523]

There was a revision to the pto adjustment but don't know if it affects what you have now.

Garry

[mpoore 26]

Thanks. I read that bulletin and it would apply. The adjustment rod was adjusted to the maximum so no additional tension could be gained from adjustment. The problem I have is that I have a flat clutch retrofitted to this C-195 most likely because the previous owner could not find a replacement cone clutch. Is the flat clutch supposed to be a direct bolt-on replacement albeit with less torque holding capability? I am presuming a flat clutch should be fine for a 48" deck as models with that clutch came with 48" decks. Therefore, I am working on the assumption that something is not right.

 

Upon disassembly I discovered what I believe to be the problem. I am going to describe it and what I am doing about it. Once I test it out, I'll post again.

 

This description will use the Wheel Horse parts diagram as a reference. Download the pdf of the parts list for clarity. #41, a bolt in the end of the engine crankshaft was rubbing against #33, shaft-PTO, which I believe prevented the clutch from fully engaging. #33 has two c-clips to hold it onto #36, ball bearing. There was about .017" end play on the shaft when mounted on a new bearing. I made and installed a shim on the shaft (#33) to eliminate all play. The next thing I did was make a .100" shim to place between the clutch plate and drive pulley. This shifted the entire clutch assembly from the engine, which moved the proper adjustment point on the clutch rod #11 from the extreme to a point where there are threads available for further adjustment.

 

While the above may work, there is also the possibility that something else is wrong with this setup that made my repair necessary. Perhaps a flat clutch is not a direct replacement for a cone clutch. Maybe the previous owner omitted a part or installed something incorrectly. Having never seen one done properly I am not sure I would notice the difference. I would recommend that anyone having clutch problems to check that bolt and shaft for signs of contact.

[Skipper 1,789]

Firstly you need to make sure you have the right flat clutch on it. Only the 520 type (the big one) is strong enough. Those you can find used many places. Make sure your surfaces are clean and smooth. Perhaps a 20$ relining would be an option so basics are right. You can have the bell/metal surface lightly skimmed if necessary. Cone/bell bearings should be good, as should the sleeve it runs on.

 

I had a lot of slipping problems on mine too, both the cone and the flat clutch. It needs to be a perfect press directly on the cone/bell. no pulling a bit up or down, or it will slip. Also, if the clutch material has had any oil or anything like that run onto it, it is most likely toast.

 

I went for an electric heavy duty instead. So happy with it

 

If you cant find the parts, send me a message. I might know someone in your area that can help.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Skipper

[mpoore 26]

I have an update. I did a couple of additional things in addition to the changes mentioned in my previous post. Testing helped discover a couple more problems. This install includes parts from the the original cone clutch and the replacement flat clutch. While the parts look the same there is obviously a difference between #31 (Rod Housing) because they use different part numbers for the flat clutch and cone clutch versions. Another discovery is that #41 (HHCS), a bolt in the end of the crankshaft is only used on the cone clutch version to hold #40 (Race Bearing) in place. The flat clutch uses #42 (Retainers). My install had both, which I am sure is the reason #41 was rubbing against #33 (Shaft-PTO) -#41 isn't supposed to be there! I don't have a cone clutch to measure, but I would have to assume that the height (distance it sticks out from the engine) is close, but different. It looked right, but didn't work right. I also had some rubbing of #31 (Rod Housing) and #43 (Clutch Plate). Again, #31 is probably not designed for a flat clutch. It is probably the original cone clutch part number. An easy fix, which is referenced in other threads, is to put a shim under the cotter pin on the bottom side. Doing this also required the clutch rod to be adjusted out because it tightened the clutch engagement. Another change I made was to install another shim outboard side of the outer snap ring (#34). I did this because the snap ring had a tendency to pop out on the groove. The shim is sized so that when the clutch is engaged #29 (Clevis) presses against the shim which in turn presses against the snap ring. Before I did this the clutch was engaged by #31 (Rod Housing) pressing against #33 (Shaft-PTO). Now these parts no longer directly contact as the force is transferred from the clevis to the shim to the snap ring to the bearing. Since the snap ring is being pushed toward the bearing there is no room for it to pop out of its groove.

 

I know this is a lot more detailed than most will ever need, but if you are trying to get a flat clutch to work perfectly on a C-195 you need to make sure you set it up correctly. Having all of the ancillary parts from the flat clutch setup is probably the easiest. If you can't get or have all of the parts then you need to make some adjustments with shims to get it right.

Edited May 29, 2020 by mpoore

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,523]

Don't know if you noticed most retaining rings are stamped when made. One side has sharp edges and the other rounded. The sharp edge is your friend when installed to withstand the pressure applied.

The latest version of the stub shaft uses 2 retaining rings. One one each side of the bearing. This eliminated the need for a spring and bearing inside to push the pto out when disengaged. The hardware that applies pressure now pulls the pto out.

 

Garry