Oh no, NO START!

[Chris Ramey 3]

Hiya Gang- been forever since I've been on... Hopefully everyone and your families are safe and well.

 

Say- I took out the C-125 last week. Removed the plow that I only got to use ONE WHOLE TIME over the Winter, serviced my mower deck, blade sharpening, made sure the mule and belts were good... Put it all together and AWAY I WENT. 

 

Mowed the front half acre BEAUTIFULLY. Ran like NOBODY'S BUSINESS.... In fact, the tractor ran like a top all through the Winter with nary a problem.

 

I got out back of the barn to do the acre and a quarter... And ran once around the edge of my neighbor's 1/4 acre back yard with no problem...

BUT, at the back of our yard is a big ol' nasty Hickory root that I swear I've never hit before... Anyhoo, I managed to catch the left front corner of the side-discharge deck on the root and it stopped that tractor like an electromagnet!

 

It kept running, so I disengaged the PTO and threw it in reverse, backed off of the root and continued on...

 

I got about 30 feet and realized I didn't re-engage the blades, so I stopped, reversed and got back to where I passed that root. Threw it in 2nd and engaged the blades, mowed about 20 feet, and that tractor just FLAT SHUT DOWN.

 

I tried everything to restart it, all the old tricks... But NOTHING.

I DID have power, the headlights would switch on.

 

So, towed it with the Flex up to the barn and got it inside.

 

On that 300 foot trip, after I got it inside, it somehow magically lost power to even the headlights.

 

The battery is new from the END of last mowing season. It reads 12.44 V across the lugs on the multimeter... Could the very abrupt stop have caused 2 plates to touch in the battery?

 

Also... I happened to have both a brand-new ignition switch and a brand-new solenoid, so I figured I'd go whole hog and just replace them... The old solenoid was reading MINUS 14V when in the start position on the ignition switch, so I figured the solenoid somehow puked in the abrupt stop.... Switched both out to NEW.

 

BUT STILL NO LIGHTS, NO VROOM VROOM, NO "BUMP", NO NUTHIN'... 

I even checked that damn Dead Man's switch under the seat... It makes continuity when pushed and breaks it when not.

 

Whu happuh? Any ideas or advice ( besides "get rid of that damn thing", ala The Missus) would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!

 

THANKS, and God Bless, Fellas!

 

Cheers,

Chris

Edited April 17, 2020 by Chris Ramey
Spelling/punctuation

[squonk 43,820]

Is there an ammeter? If so check connections there.

[953 nut 60,007]

As Mike said, all electrical energy from your battery passes through the amp meter on the way to the key switch.

Any electrical connection that is not tight or is corroded could be the culprit. This drawing done by @BOB ELLISON should be pretty close to your  C-125 and help you locate the components that are common to your problem.

 

[lynnmor 7,817]

7 hours ago, Chris Ramey said:

The old solenoid was reading MINUS 14V when in the start position

 

 

Does it still read MINUS 14V with the new solenoid?  If so, I suspect an open ground.

[squonk 43,820]

8 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

Does it still read MINUS 14V with the new solenoid?  If so, I suspect an open ground.

C-125 should have the shaker plate engine. Check the extra ground cable that grounds the plate to the frame.

[Tuneup 1,452]

Funky! Something jolted loose. So, key ON and you're getting 12V at the coil? Hand turn the engine with key ON and you get alternating 0V and 12V on the points side of the coil? You're hinting that you can't get the starter to turn but I didn't read that the engine could not fire with the old screwdriver trick on the solenoid. Yeah, my ammeter was open, my initial NAPA coil lasted 15 minutes and the shaker ground was 'shaky'. We could work on this together if you move farther south   Good luck!

[953 nut 60,007]

8 hours ago, Chris Ramey said:

reading MINUS 14V when in the start position on the ignition switch

Is it -14 volts or is it -14 Amps?

[squonk 43,820]

43 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Is it -14 volts or is it -14 Amps?

And how can you have -14 volts with only 12.4 at the battery? 

[squonk 43,820]

Another tidbit. I had an 81 C-145. It just up and quit one day. I found one of those plastic  spring loaded cheapie fuse holders buried in the harness. The spring broke and the fuse stopped making contact. Don't know if it was factory or not. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,483]

What year is this C-125? The wiring changed after 1977.

Click on the picture

Garry

[Chris Ramey 3]

Thanks guys! Two days ago, the arthritis kicked in and wouldn't let me do anything in the barn... Then yesterday morning the damn water heater went Deep Six, so it was a mad dash to buy a new one... Today and tomorrow are the install.

 

As far as I know, the tractor is a 1978 model C-125.

 

Yeah... The battery sometimes would read 12.2v and then 12.44v and then 12.00v... Crazy!

Went and got a brand new one, gonna go throw it in there now.

 

Yes... COULD jump the solenoid to get the starter to spin and the Bendix to work... But it was such a huge spark show, I didn't wanna cause anymore trouble for myself than necessary.

I have pretty bad Osteo Arthritis and it's REALLY tough to do now what I could do easily when I was in my 30s... Bad part is that there's usually no help around... Funny part is I USED TO seemingly have 5 arms... Not anymore, though!😉

 

I put in new cables, a new solenoid and then there's the battery... I'll give y'all a progress report tomorrow!

 

Thanks for the ideas the diagram and the support!

[Chris Ramey 3]

 

 

On 4/17/2020 at 8:25 AM, Tuneup said:

Funky! Something jolted loose. So, key ON and you're getting 12V at the coil? Hand turn the engine with key ON and you get alternating 0V and 12V on the points side of the coil? You're hinting that you can't get the starter to turn but I didn't read that the engine could not fire with the old screwdriver trick on the solenoid. Yeah, my ammeter was open, my initial NAPA coil lasted 15 minutes and the shaker ground was 'shaky'. We could work on this together if you move farther south   Good luck!

I've gone through and replaced all of the big cables today. Cleaned all of the contacts. Brand new battery. But now, I'm thinking I might have boogered the switch that works off of the clutch pedal... Where is that lil debbil, anyhow? 

The new battery reads 12.66v across the terminals, but as soon as I hit the key, there's nuthin... And that's when STANDING on the clutch. I think I might have clobbered something when it hung up on that tree root... Like I said, that tractor just flat stopped in it's tracks, even though it continued to run. 

But when the deck caught that root, the rear part of the deck angled up amd Im pretty sure it actually touched the bottom of thr frame... It all just happened so damn fast... And I reacted fast. (Amazing, 'cause the Arthur normally makes me move slower than molasses.) But, as soon as it hung up, I stabbed in the clutch, pulled off the PTO, threw it in reverse and backed off of that root... Pulled around it and realized to throw the PTO back on... That's when I got about 20 or 30 feet and she sputtered out n' died.

Anyhow, I crawled around under it with a light and a mirror this evening, lookin' for the clutch switch... Didn't find it.

I know that the PTO switch is behind the right hand side cover... But there seems to be no rod in conjunction with the clutch pedal going TO that switch... I'm guessing it's not the switch I'm looking for?

 

I just got back in the house about a half hour ago... I'm hurtin' like Burton... That crawling around on cold concrete is for the birds!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,483]

C-125 produced 1980 to 1984.

 

Garry

[Tuneup 1,452]

Hi Chris - unless you've owned this since new, there is no telling what creativity has already gone into the wiring. I've got three and all had this or that bypassed before me. None had clutch switches installed. OK, so (-) lead to battery and probe the ammeter for voltage - battery V should be on both sides. If you want the ammeter out of the conversation, jump it. Batt voltage at the ignition switch. Without battery there, she won't start OR run.

 

On the start circuit, same voltage on the start terminal and solenoid in START mode. I'm thinking there isn't any clutch switch or, yeah, the jolt dislodged it. You 'could' connect a lead from the start pin on the ignition switch directly to the solenoid and bypass everything.

 

Same on the run circuit, you could short it the same way from switch to coil.

 

If it's difficult getting around behind the battery for checking, remove it and use the ohmmeter function instead. It's just a matter of probing to find it. I know - frustrating - and worse considering your condition.

 

The above will bypass everything and it's not recommended. Provided for troubleshooting. I'm in the world of rednecks and, yeah, my neck's already rough this spring but I try to keep it all properly wired and safe. Be careful!

 

 

[953 nut 60,007]

7 hours ago, Chris Ramey said:

seems to be no rod in conjunction with the clutch pedal going TO that switch.

Most clutch switches are located on the right side inside the shift tunnel between you legs. The switch lever sticks out the right side and makes contact with the clutch arm that the idler is mounted to.

7 hours ago, Chris Ramey said:

replaced all of the big cables today.

I am not sure, but think the engine is mounted to a "shaker Plate" rather than being bolted directly to the frame. If this is the case be sure the ground strap from the frame to the engine is good.  Even better, run the griund wire directly to the engine block.

[Chris Ramey 3]

I'll look at those spots! Never would have occurred to me.. Thank you.