314-8 - no spark

[TC10284 113]

73449 model 314-8 with Kohler Command 14HP. 

Last season it ran fine. Occasionally I had trouble with it not wanting to fire, but eventually it did. 

 

Turned it over today to let it run and I got no fire. Removed plug and grounded to the block/unpainted metal. No spark. Didn't have the correct replacement plug so put a new NGK TR5 plug in plug wire (NOT engine because it is way too long) and grounded to block. No spark still. 

Battery is good and fully charged. I keep it on a solar battery maintainer. 

Checked fuses. All good. 

Can't see any visibly broken, bare, or loose wiring. 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,483]

What is your tractor's serial number so we get the correct wiring diagram?

 

Garry

[TC10284 113]

8 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

What is your tractor's serial number so we get the correct wiring diagram?

 

Garry

 

That would be 200000217.

Thanks! 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,483]

Here is a page from the Demystification Guide.

Cleaned it up and added color.

You have magneto ignition that is self powered. The ignition wire simply grounds the ignition to shut it off.

This tractor uses a "battery style" ignition switch to control a relay that grounds the ignition wire to shut it off.

If you could disconnect the white ignition wire the engine should run.

Failing that you need to determine if the kill relay is functioning.

The yellow and purple must both have power at the same time for the ground to be removed from the ignition.

If the yellow wire has power at the kill relay the relay contacts should open and remove the ground from the ignition wire allowing the engine to run.

This diagram is for start mode but you can turn the key to the run position without the engine running for these test purposes.

You need a test light or voltmeter to trace the circuits.

If you do not have power in the yellow wire with the key in run position follow the circuit back to the battery to find out the failure.

If you want to print this out I added a pdf copy to the files.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,483]

I have never seen one of these but to have a neutral switch the gear shifter must have a magnetic switch on it. Possibly to is out of position so the magnetic field is too weak to function.

That would prevent the neutral relay from closing which is required to remove the ground from the ignition.

A sloppy shifter could also be a cause if they are relying on a magnet.

 

Garry

[TC10284 113]

19 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

I have never seen one of these but to have a neutral switch the gear shifter must have a magnetic switch on it. Possibly to is out of position so the magnetic field is too weak to function.

That would prevent the neutral relay from closing which is required to remove the ground from the ignition.

A sloppy shifter could also be a cause if they are relying on a magnet.

 

Garry

 

Hmmm...seems like last season I could mess with the shifter and that would allow it to run again. I'll try messing more with that later. 

Thanks for the info and the diagram!

[TC10284 113]

OK, so I worked on this a good bit  today going through some things. 

I don't think it's any kind of safety switch that I am aware of. I can turn the engine over and it gets fuel, but no fire. During turning it over, I can move the gear shifter away from the neutral position to forward, and it will kill the starter. If I engage the PTO when I am turning it over, it kills the starter. The reverse mowing switch is disabled (jumped with a wire), but that should not affect starting as far as I know. 

 

The idiot lights are basically non-function except partly for the Engine Oil light. When I jiggled the wires, the Engine Oil light came on. I checked the oil yesterday and added some. I checked it again today and the oil level is slightly above the full mark. 

 

So...I am lost. 

 

Could it be a coil or condenser? I don't even know where that's at on this Kohler Command 14HP. 

[953 nut 60,008]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:33 AM, gwest_ca said:

You have magneto ignition that is self powered. The ignition wire simply grounds the ignition to shut it off.

This tractor uses a "battery style" ignition switch to control a relay that grounds the ignition wire to shut it off

Garry,  I think that removing the kill relay from the socket would remove any potential magneto grounds keeping the engine from running (same as removing the White Wire.

[TC10284 113]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:33 AM, gwest_ca said:

You have magneto ignition that is self powered. The ignition wire simply grounds the ignition to shut it off.

This tractor uses a "battery style" ignition switch to control a relay that grounds the ignition wire to shut it off.

If you could disconnect the white ignition wire the engine should run.

Failing that you need to determine if the kill relay is functioning.

The yellow and purple must both have power at the same time for the ground to be removed from the ignition.

 

 

Crap, I overlooked this and forgot to check it. I'll try it tomorrow. 

[TC10284 113]

Another update:

Today I checked on the white wire coming from the kill relay going to the engine. 

I took the white wire out of the engine connector and turned it over. Still no spark. 

I've tried replacing the relay switch with two of a few spares that I have. Still no spark. 

Pics:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOxmntzQYimaxdpjL6yt2TPymBMk2nNQT6VEs_8HqKlDiqpLT68YbqkfwowpXxpVw/photo/AF1QipM-7tHV8AtzCi7wR9dckuB0CYU4Oy5jx8j0ssFn?key=eWxrbGtyeDZBZDdaNWd0RFEzQUs4VGEtX0p6RHZR

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by TC10284

[953 nut 60,008]

OK, time to check out the Mag.

 

[TC10284 113]

15 hours ago, 953 nut said:

OK, time to check out the Mag.

 

 

Thanks! I went ahead and ordered a replacement part for my model and part number 12 584 04, but I will also test it to make sure. 

https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails?id=23201

[TC10284 113]

Update:

I received the replacement ignition coil today, installed it, immediately got spark. Put all back together and it started/ran just fine!

Thanks!

Edited April 28, 2020 by TC10284