ANy info on 1970 WH Raider 12

[chuckinnc 0]

 There is a WH Raider 12hp coming up for auction, I was told the motor is bad, it looks complete so I was thinking of putting  a newer motor on it, removing the deck and using it for a garden tractor.  I need to know if the running gear will handle to chore.  Web says it's a 6 speed, 4 forward and 2 reverse so I am

 guessing that means it has hi/lo?  Any info would be appreciated!

[Stepney 2,351]

I've seen many 'motor is bad' descriptions before.. I've still not yet seen one truly dead.

Yes, 6 speeds ahead, 2 astern via a split range selector. As long as the gearbox is good, you simply can't go wrong with one of them. 

[ebinmaine 70,947]

24 minutes ago, chuckinnc said:

need to know if the running gear will handle to chore

 

No doubt.

 

That's a right tough tractor given proper maintenance.

Like @Stepney states above... Don't go believing the engines dead til you prove it.

Those old Kohler engines are tough when alive and tough to take out.

 

 

You'd have all the help you need from the folks here to get it back to work.

 

[chuckinnc 0]

I don't know if it's a 1970, just guessing, there are some photos posted but there is no auction preview.  Just trying to get as much info for that day.

They said engine won't run and needs replacing, 12hp tag says SN#8334773   and the tractor ID tag is worn almost off but I can see 91-12k?????

with 9023 below it,     description just says:

 

MODEL NO: K301AS SPEC. NO: EX476448d SERIAL NO: 8334773

Motor needs to be replaced.

[Pullstart 64,771]

 

I’ve bought two tractors that were non running due to catastrophic rod breakage... but other “non-runners” just needed some lovin’ and some sweet talkin’ to come alive again 

[ZXT 2,401]

Welcome! Glad to have you! 

 

Any pictures of the machine? Might help us give you a price range of what it is worth, assuming the engine is shot. Might just need a carb rebuild. Even if it broke a rod, if the rod didn't go through the block, it can be rebuilt very easily. You can definitely repower it with something else, but a good running K series is hard to beat!

[chuckinnc 0]

Looking up the K301AS serial number it says - made in 1977 - but the web says Raiders were made from 1968 - 73 -. ? It dosen't  say what type of transmission, wondering if the Raider came out with Hydro trans.

[Stepney 2,351]

What you have there is quite a bit later than a Raider. That wide dash tells me it's a C-xx1 series. IE, C121 Automatic, perhaps. ID tag is still on the dash tower in that era, I think. The 'AS' suffix on the engine only denotes the self starter and alternator. However 1977 would be about right for that machine.

[ebinmaine 70,947]

5 hours ago, chuckinnc said:

Looking up the K301AS serial number it says - made in 1977 - but the web says Raiders were made from 1968 - 73 -. ? It dosen't  say what type of transmission, wondering if the Raider came out with Hydro trans.

 

 

Not where the auction house is getting their info.

As stated above...

That isn't a raider.

 

It's in the 78 to 82 year range.

Also great machines.

 

Looks like it would clean up quite well.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,272]

10 hours ago, chuckinnc said:

I don't know if it's a 1970, just guessing, there are some photos posted but there is no auction preview.  Just trying to get as much info for that day.

They said engine won't run and needs replacing, 12hp tag says SN#8334773   and the tractor ID tag is worn almost off but I can see 91-12k?????

with 9023 below it,     description just says:

 

MODEL NO: K301AS SPEC. NO: EX476448d SERIAL NO: 8334773

Motor needs to be replaced.

 

Welcome to the forum.

Serial number 8334773 was made by Kohler in 1977 but spec number 47648d was used only in 1978 and 1979 model tractors.

Production of the 1978 model tractors started in late 1977 so where was this engine for over a year?

The 9023 Julian build date tells us the tractor was scheduled to be built on Tuesday January 23, 1979

That makes it a 1979 C-121 Automatic model 91-12KS01

The Raider's have gear transmissions so likely where the 6 speed, 4 forward and 2 reverse came from.

Click on the pictures

Here is everything we have on this model. Look through them all because they are mixed up.

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?&q=91-12ks01&type=downloads_file&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy

 

Garry

[The Tuul Crib 7,338]

to

 

[953 nut 58,172]

9 hours ago, chuckinnc said:

auction, I was told the motor is bad,

In auction terms that just means the engine wouldn't start with the key, they aren't going to spend any time or money to make it run. Chances are the majority of bidders won't go very high and you can pick it up at a reasonable price.

      If you don't see a hole in the block where a connecting rod came out then the Kohler is able to be saved.

let us know how you do on this.

[The Tuul Crib 7,338]

46 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

In auction terms that just means the engine wouldn't start with the key, they aren't going to spend any time or money to make it run. Chances are the majority of bidders won't go very high and you can pick it up at a reasonable price.

      If you don't see a hole in the block where a connecting rod came out then the Kohler is able to be saved.

let us know how you do on this.

[SylvanLakeWH 27,653]

[Pullstart 64,771]

I know there’s such a thing in the south as White Lightning that could make an engine purr... but I don’t think Sun Drop is gonna cut the mustard!

 

The wiring looks a bit cobbled, but there are plenty of guides here to help get that thing cleaned up and running just swell.  I bet it won’t get as high as $200 at auction... unless there’s a big WH following in your neck of the woods.

[Achto 28,864]

11 hours ago, chuckinnc said:

 Looking at the picture, I don't think this tractor has a 6speed transmission. This tractor looks to be a hydrostatic drive. If the price is right I would try to pick it up, the hydro's are also good transmissions. Like stated above if there is no hole in the block it probably will run after giving it a little bit of attention.

[c-series don 9,468]

That’s a C-121 automatic all day long!!! 

[chuckinnc 0]

Ok, so same question, does it have enough low speed power to be a garden tractor.  Don't care about speed, just pulling power.

[ebinmaine 70,947]

2 hours ago, chuckinnc said:

Ok, so same question, does it have enough low speed power to be a garden tractor.  Don't care about speed, just pulling power.

I'll go ahead to my original answer even though it's a different rig.

 

No doubt.

 

Just as a clarification... There are very few Wheelhorses that are Lawn Tractors.

Nearly all Wheelhorse tractors are true GARDEN TRACTORS.

 

There are of course power differences across the brand and year range. Some are better than others at doing certain things.

 

The C - *** Series from 74 to 82 is a great machine and the favorite of lots of folks.

(Myself included)

 

[chip61 664]

I believe a hydro in good condition will pull a plow just fine, but I understand that a tiller may "push" a hydro tractor and not hold steady speed like a manual. I've never tilled with a hydro myself.

[ZXT 2,401]

I've not yet used my tiller that came with my C-160 Hydro last year, but I don't see any reason why a tiller wouldn't be fine behind it. I've seen threads on here discussing the matter, and I think the general consensus is a hydro is fine, you just have to adjust the motion control lever often. 

 

Hopefully you get it! C-series are excellent tractors. Really a better worker than a Raider simply because it came with the Tach-a-matic. Attachments are far more common for this setup.

 

Looks like it doesn't have a deck, which would be a bummer for me, and definitely lower its value by about 1/2. If you happen to get access to it before the auction, you could roll the engine through and probably tell if the engine is dead. I'd say $150 would be in the ball park.

Edited February 26, 2020 by ZXT