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oilwell1415

Help with first tractor purchase

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oilwell1415

Hi guys.  First post about first tractor purchase.  I've been looking for an old tractor for a few years now and may have found one that will work for me.  I've done a little research, but haven't found a lot because I don't really know what I'm looking for.  I think it's a Suburban, but don't really know.  The seller of this tractor says it's a 55-60 model, but doesn't know which one.  It was allegedly in use until 4 years ago when the owner died and has been sitting in the garage since.  The ad has been up for probably a month or more and the asking price is $1000.  I think that's pretty high based on some other tractors I've seen for sale that are ready to go to work and are in much nicer condition, but like I said I don't really know what I'm looking at.  Can you tell me what this is and what a fair price would be?  I don't want to low ball them, but based on what I've seen in other ads ranging from $200-$1000 over the past couple of years I think they've got a $350 tractor, maybe $500 if it started and ran.  I have no use for the plow and decks.  Is there a market for them?  Are there any problem areas on this that I should look for?  My intended use is as a tug for small aircraft that weigh about 2,000 lbs.  Would this do that job?  Thanks for any advice.

decks.jpg

plow.jpg

tractor 1.jpg

tractor 2.jpg

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Achto
1 hour ago, oilwell1415 said:

I think it's a Suburban, but don't really know.

 

:WRS:

It looks like a 1961 Suburban 401 with the wrong engine, + I see a few things missing from it. The engine should be a 4hp Kohler K91.

 This would be a fun tractor to have & yes it would probably pull your plane, just don't know how well it would be able to stop your plane.  

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SylvanLakeWH

:text-welcomeconfetti:

 

Great little tractors. I can't help on value, but others will be along to address your value questions shortly...

 

You are on the right site - these guys know everything about Wheel Horses and will promptly help you out!

 

I can tell you there is a market for these little guys that varies depending on location, and yes there is a market for the plow and decks - again varies by area...

 

Lastly, I would think it would have no problem as a tug...I use my 10 hp to pull my 1500 lb boat around with no issues at all...just keep it low and slow...(Look up Wheel Horse at Indy 500 - they used these for tugs at Indy during races...)

 

:twocents-02cents:

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Herder

:WRS:  I am no expert when it comes to rj's or suburban's but what I do see, is NOT a $1000 tractor.  Although it's it would make would make a good project if that's what your looking for I don't think it would make a good tug.  It sounds to me your in need of something along the lines of a heavier model.  Mid 70s to mid 80s C-series 10HP to 16HP single cylinder long frame would get the job done also 3,4,& 5 series from mid 80s to early 2000 10HP to 20HP are all capable tractors.  Hydro's and 6,8 speeds.  

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WHNJ701

I would say he is dreaming for 1k bucks, 

looks like 1961 551 or 401 model,  the original engine is gone, the rear axles are leaking like crazy, bad repaint.

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oliver2-44

:text-welcomeconfetti:

That looks like a Wheelhorse Suburban 1961 model 401. 

The tractor looks fairly complete.   

The engine is not original, which lowers value, although a newer engine may have less wear/hours.   With it having a replacement engine, is there a metal guard over the belt on the right side of the tractor.  if missing original guards are very hard to find$. A vendor makes repop guards  $60

The rear rims look oily, which would indicate a leaking transmission seal.  But this also probable indicates the brass axle  bushing/bearing is worn and needs replaced. The transmission probable needs to be disassembled, cleaned and a bushings, bearings, seals replaced.  parts are available from a vendor on here for about $200

The front rims look quite rusty.   They originally filled front rims with calcium chloride for weight.  it eats the rims up over time and needs to get out of there. Check the rims for rust through pin holes.   

The gas tank mounting straps have been repaired with screws put through the hood, instead of spot welded.

From the picture it looks like it has been repainted, which detracts slightly from its $ antiquity value. 

There are some optional cast iron foot rest that it does not have. (which are getting hard to find if you want them.$

Not sure what the green plow thing is?

All 3 mower decks are missing parts, the left most one is mostly complete.

 

With these tractors having the engine in the middle, they are light on the front end.  Even with just a driver on the them they can easily pop a wheelie if you pop the clutch.  Several on here have turned these tractors over.  As far as using it for an airplane tug, That  4hp & transmission will pull an amazing amount.  It will do the job, but will need a weight bar added to the front, and possible rear wheel weights.  There are 2 holes on each side of the frame towards the front that make it easy to bolt some flat strap or angle iron into to add a weight bar. 

 

There are less of them in the south so they get a little higher value here, but the $1000 is much too high, especially with it not having the original engine.  These are sort after tractors to restore in there original work clothes, or completely disassemble, blast and paint to make them like new.   The 3 mower decks add a little value.  So if you want a cool antique tractor to mechanically and /or cosmetically restore and use these are fun.  Your $350 to $500 is in the right/high range for being in the South if it runs.  

 

One of the nice things about all the Wheelhorse tractors is they are fairly easy to work on.  An early John Deere may be cool, but there are a real pain to do almost any repair on. 

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WHNJ701

I see this more and more, especially with people buying their first tractor to restore.  do your research, and be very selective, spending a little more or having one shipped will save a ton of headaches later on.  a nice wheelhorse is easy to find

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oilwell1415

Wow.  That's a lot of great info.  Thanks guys.

 

I knew it was the wrong engine, which doesn't bother me too badly but might once I get into this.  My plane is a 1947 model and I'm looking for something that appears period correct, so a newer model is out.  I am currently pulling/pushing the plane out/in the hangar by hand and there are hand tugs out there that run on power drills, so I'm not too worried about it having the power or stopping ability needed.  It won't be going more than walking speed and only about 50 feet at a time.  I was more worried about maneuverability and reliability.  Nothing ruins a good flying day like getting to the airport and finding equipment that doesn't work or that you have to fight with constantly.
 

I will probably fabricate my own foot rests and belt guard.  I am a tinkered with some fabrication skills, so I am expecting this to be an extended project.  The engine that's on there is equipped for electric start, so I was planning to fab a battery box to put on the front to make that usable while adding weight to the front end.  I was a little concerned about the weight distribution, especially with my 250 lbs on the seat.  Might do a weight bar as well.  The push bar will be on the front, so I can also play with the geometry of that a little bit to keep the front wheels on the ground.

 

My overall plan is to just get it set up and use it for a few months to make sure it does what I want it to and then take it apart and fix it up.

 

BTW, here's a pic of the plane.

photo.JPG

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oilwell1415

Oh, and these are definitely not easy to find in the south.  If I had time to drive to Pennsylvania, North Dakota, or other northern states I would have a lot more to choose from.  I've found a few down here, but this is the first one the people have contacted me back about.

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WHNJ701

u ship and fastenal can ship a garden tractors reasonable,  cheaper than driving.

nice looking navion!

Edited by jabelman
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Pullstart

@oilwell1415 :text-welcomeconfetti:

 

If you were to find a 1962-1964 model, it would have the same style brake as the bigger heavier later model tractors mentioned.  I am not sure if this has the same brake band as the 62 and up ones.  That 1961 round hood is a fun looking project, it I’m with the other guys.  I wouldn’t drop any more than $350 (here maybe less) for that.  The small displacement Kohler don’t take much to yank start them, you may be surprised that electric start would just be another hassle.  

 

This 552 I have looks to be in similar condition as far as needs are.  The transmission needs to be opened and it came with an engine.  I think I gave $225 for it, for reference.  That was probably too much, but it was an impulse at the time.

 

 

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953 nut

:twocents-02cents:   There are lots of places that are a desert when it comes to finding a :wh:, you are not alone. If you have relatives living in PA, IN OH or IL who you could enlist in your hunt it cold be helpful.  I agree that $ 350 would be a fair price from what you have shown us.

:text-coolphotos:         Love your plane!

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ZXT

Excellent looking Navion! 

 

I'll jump on the "it isn't worth a grand" bandwagon. You could easily buy a much nicer running one from up north and have it shipped down here for the same money and have a better starting point. 

 

There was one on CL a few months ago around here and one on one of the selling sites like offerup or something like that. I'll see if I can find anything close to you that might be a better candidate. 

 

If he doesn't like your $350 offer, after he sits on the tractor for a little while he'll probably call you back and sell it to you.

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Ed Kennell

:text-welcomeconfetti: to the :rs: 

As you are aware, the  mid engine Suburban is certainly not the best tractor for pulling.  But I understand your desire to use a WH that is close to your planes age.

   I can tell you from experience a short frame mid engine tractor is not safe to use to pull a 2KLB 19' Carolina Skiff.  The tractor goes vertical very quickly if there is any increase in the rolling load...like a crack in the concrete.

With your push/pull bar attached to the front, this tendency to flip is eliminated.  HP and rear traction is not a problem with the correct tires on a dry paved level surface.

My  concerns would be braking and front wheel traction while making turns  while pushing. 

 

The price;

The tractor 2-300

the decks  50 each if the cast spindle supports under the deck are not cracked....most are cracked.

the plow 5

 

 

Edited by Ed Kennell

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oilwell1415

And this one popped up today for $200.  But it's a 4 hour drive one way to get it.  Much nicer tractor and much nicer price.  Wish it had fenders.

 

79094383_163027088408674_4086903321946750976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQlBFmFp7noRWcTOoqolcNnzRCLMcvA3ejx9BBKJ-M7zU8MWrby3mKjWdcCxtZnDtlo&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=dde9ac8f55b91800dc31c120f54261d8&oe=5E81ACFC

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857 horse

WOW...

 

  @OILWELL1415 ,,,,,,,NOW THAT IS NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

GOOD EYE..:USA:

Edited by 857 horse

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WHNJ701
25 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

And this one popped up today for $200.  But it's a 4 hour drive one way to get it.  Much nicer tractor and much nicer price.  Wish it had fenders.

 

79094383_163027088408674_4086903321946750976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQlBFmFp7noRWcTOoqolcNnzRCLMcvA3ejx9BBKJ-M7zU8MWrby3mKjWdcCxtZnDtlo&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=dde9ac8f55b91800dc31c120f54261d8&oe=5E81ACFC

that's a steal for 200

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tom2p
2 hours ago, pullstart said:

@oilwell1415 :text-welcomeconfetti:

 

If you were to find a 1962-1964 model, it would have the same style brake as the bigger heavier later model tractors mentioned.  I am not sure if this has the same brake band as the 62 and up ones.  That 1961 round hood is a fun looking project, it I’m with the other guys.  I wouldn’t drop any more than $350 (here maybe less) for that.  The small displacement Kohler don’t take much to yank start them, you may be surprised that electric start would just be another hassle.  

 

This 552 I have looks to be in similar condition as far as needs are.  The transmission needs to be opened and it came with an engine.  I think I gave $225 for it, for reference.  That was probably too much, but it was an impulse at the time.

 

 


agree 

 

no battery means no dead batteries ; if the tractor will sit at another location this might be important 

 

and a decent running 7hp Kohler will start quickly with barely a pull 

 

 

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lynnmor
2 hours ago, oilwell1415 said:

And this one popped up today for $200.  But it's a 4 hour drive one way to get it.  Much nicer tractor and much nicer price.  Wish it had fenders.

 

 

There are fenders advertised in my area that might fit, but we aren't allowed to provide links for such.  Do some searching, they are out there.  That 4 hour drive is part of the game when dealing in vintage tractors, just do it.

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8ntruck

I think I saw some round Wheel Horse fenders on E-bay the other day for around $100.  Looked like they were from the same era tractor as what you are looking at.  My horse is a 1973 model, so my knowledge of older tractors is not very reliable.

 

4 hour drive, reasonable price.  As Lynnmor says, just do it.

 

Good luck on your search.

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Daddy Don

 Welcome to :rs:I live in Oklahoma City, go by Daddy Don. If you find one down this way and need me to go look at it just let me know. Good luck with you project. 

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T-Mo

For a $1000 you can buy a reasonable condition Farmall Cub, or maybe even an A, that will handle that plane with ease.  And the Cubs first came out in 1947, and Farmall made the A from 1939 to 1948 when it was replaced by the Super A.  You might even find a B, which was made from 1939 to 1947.

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oilwell1415

The ad for the $200 tractor I posted above has been edited to say he wants to buy one instead of selling one, so that didn't work out.  I also found this one for $225 a 6 hour drive away.  Based on what you guys have said it may be better suited for what I need.  I really like the look of the smaller tractor better, but functionality is important as well.  I could either find or fab some round fenders for this one.

64750651_1363147023837119_2294432359145013248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnZOolN-6Xyz-nImvqVnRnDunVrlL1lVN2SOtBC8aUiLyJJTQJQOaIIHeJ_kcNJJdc&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=b3d4f112071f78bda26e725ecd2afaa7&oe=5E66C000

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oilwell1415
47 minutes ago, T-Mo said:

For a $1000 you can buy a reasonable condition Farmall Cub, or maybe even an A, that will handle that plane with ease.  And the Cubs first came out in 1947, and Farmall made the A from 1939 to 1948 when it was replaced by the Super A.  You might even find a B, which was made from 1939 to 1947.

I used to have a 39 Farmall.  Those are way too big for what I need.

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WHNJ701
8 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

The ad for the $200 tractor I posted above has been edited to say he wants to buy one instead of selling one, so that didn't work out.  I also found this one for $225 a 6 hour drive away.  Based on what you guys have said it may be better suited for what I need.  I really like the look of the smaller tractor better, but functionality is important as well.  I could either find or fab some round fenders for this one.

64750651_1363147023837119_2294432359145013248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnZOolN-6Xyz-nImvqVnRnDunVrlL1lVN2SOtBC8aUiLyJJTQJQOaIIHeJ_kcNJJdc&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=b3d4f112071f78bda26e725ecd2afaa7&oe=5E66C000

that's not a wheelhorse!  I need to see the front of the hood, might very early lawnmaster, which is the same as a porter cable tractor/moto mower which looks like this 

2014-08-23_15-06-08_852.jpg

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