Thoughts on Kohler M18?

[wheelwhores 107]

What r pluses and minuses of the kt17 series 2 versus the kohler twin M18?  Both good reliable engines with good torque?

[wheelwhores 107]

Looked at a repowered pair of c175 tractors....each with one of these engines....similar use and condition.

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 25,291]

  I thought they were essentially the same motor (minus 1 hp) but the Magnum would have electronic ignition and the K would have points. 

[pfrederi 20,533]

As Sparky said essential same engine M has the edge in my mind as it has Mag ignition no points to set/clean....

 

Unless either one came from a WH they may not be usable on a manual PTO tractor.  only a very few spec #s of either engine have the necessary thrust bearing.....

[pfrederi 20,533]

Just read your second posting.  Both on WHs BUT who did the repower and where did they get the engine.  I would still check spec#s to make sure they have thrust bearings.  WH replaced some failed Series 1 KT 17s with service (gray) engines..however they were a special spec made for WH with thrust bearing,

[wheelwhores 107]

16 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Just read your second posting.  Both on WHs BUT who did the repower and where did they get the engine.  I would still check spec#s to make sure they have thrust bearings.  WH replaced some failed Series 1 KT 17s with service (gray) engines..however they were a special spec made for WH with thrust bearing,

like this? 

[wheelwhores 107]

here is the other.

[wheelwhores 107]

based on the size and quality of this guys collection i would estimate he knows his way around a Red

[pfrederi 20,533]

Wheel horse had two M18 spec #s  24510 used in 418A/C (they were black) and 24536 which i can't find a use of.

[Mudrig150 386]

Magnums have full pressure lube through their entire run, and electronic ignition. They usually have oil filters.

All KT engines have battery ignition.

Series 1 KT engines have splash lube, they pour the oil onto the pistons from the top, which causes oil starvation on hills. There is no oil filter adapter, holes in the head tin for remote oil filter lines, and no hole for oil sentry.

Series 2 KT engines have full pressure lube, but usually no oil filter. They have a block-off plate instead of an oil filter, a plug for the oil sentry, and 2 caps in the head tin for the remote oil filter lines.

 

A magnum is not a direct interchange for a KT, the Magnum requires ground to the coil to kill spark, and the KT just needs 12 volts to the coil to run. Most KT engines only have 2 wires: coil and DC from the VR. Magnums usually have 3: Coil kill, VR, and Oil sentry. 

 

Magnums that are red with square air filter like that are usually either from Gravely rear engine tractors or just generic Magnum standalones, and neither should have a thrust bearing, but you'd never know unless you tore it down.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Mudrig150

[pfrederi 20,533]

2 hours ago, Mudrig150 said:

Magnums have full pressure lube through their entire run, and electronic ignition. They usually have oil filters.

All KT engines have battery ignition.

Series 1 KT engines have splash lube, they pour the oil onto the pistons from the top, which causes oil starvation on hills. There is no oil filter adapter, holes in the head tin for remote oil filter lines, and no hole for oil sentry.

Series 2 KT engines have full pressure lube, but usually no oil filter. They have a block-off plate instead of an oil filter, a plug for the oil sentry, and 2 caps in the head tin for the remote oil filter lines.

 

A magnum is not a direct interchange for a KT, the Magnum requires ground to the coil to kill spark, and the KT just needs 12 volts to the coil to run. Most KT engines only have 2 wires: coil and DC from the VR. Magnums usually have 3: Coil kill, VR, and Oil sentry. 

 

Magnums that are red with square air filter like that are usually either from Gravely rear engine tractors or just generic Magnum standalones, and neither should have a thrust bearing, but you'd never know unless you tore it down.

 

 

If you have the spec number of the engine you can see if it has a thrust bearing. 

[WildmanC120 613]

The M18 in my 418-C has no oil filter. It has the provisions on the block though to add a lot though. 

[wallfish 19,986]

2 hours ago, WildmanC120 said:

The M18 in my 418-C has no oil filter. It has the provisions on the block though to add a lot though. 

M18 in my 418-C does not have an oil filter either so I assumed it is splash lubed

[WildmanC120 613]

16 minutes ago, wallfish said:

M18 in my 418-C does not have an oil filter either so I assumed it is splash lubed

 

Na. It's pressure lube.  WH just opted for no filter for some reason. 

[bds1984 1,508]

The M18 is a great engine!  I transplanted one from a Cub into my 520H but it has no thrust bearing on the PTO side so it gets used primarily as a plow tractor or for generator duty.  

[wheelwhores 107]

so what exactly does the thrust bearing allow for?

[WVHillbilly520H 10,378]

1 hour ago, wheelwhores said:

so what exactly does the thrust bearing allow for?

Side loads from the manual PTO for the deck/ snow thrower ect... Even though some JD and  Sears were engine/PTO set up similar and other brands (Cub Cadet) that had their engines in line to shaft drive the trans and front PTO would also see some of that side loading as the PTO belt is running taunt as well.

[pfrederi 20,533]

2 hours ago, wheelwhores said:

so what exactly does the thrust bearing allow for?

 

When you engage a WH manual PTO you are pressing in on the end of the crankshaft. Most end users just had pulleys that exerted force at right angle to the crank.  Look at the picture.  most all KT 17 had only  2 number 7 sleeve bearings , with a very small lip.  The sleeve was more than enough to handle the right angle pressure,  However the inward push of the WH PTO was against the very small lip in #7.  WH spec a thrust needle bearing and washers  (#27, 28,29) to handle the end loading.  Only a very very few KT 17 and 17 II had that bearing.

 

 

[richmondred01 2,367]

The m18 engines do not have adjustable valve tappets.

Therefore, the valves must be removed and ground if over or replaced/seats ground if under. 
great engines. Very common to have over 2000 hours before rebuilt.