Getting a K241 running

[Mudrig150 298]

I just bought a tractor with a K241, planning on getting it running over the next month or so. It's got a good bit of rust and it seems like it has low compression. Don't know about spark or the fuel system. It does have an aluminum body pump.

 

This is a thread about the motor, NOT the tractor.

[ebinmaine 63,071]

 

I'm in.

[Stepney 2,314]

Low compression is 'normal'. It has an automatic compression relief. Doesn't kick out until the engine has started. Looks like a pretty clean 210. Not a bad rig, though I prefer the earlier models myself. 

[TractorActor 3]

I've learned the hard way...bypass the gunked up fuel system entirely by unhooking the fuel line from the carb and remove the carb bowl so no gunk gets pulled in the engine.

Shoot some starting fluid in the spark plug hole to see if it will pop.

Of course make sure the oil is full and not contaminated. Dirty oil is ok at first just as long as its just dirty oil and no foam or weird stuff.

If it starts you've solved the spark and compression part right off the bat for the moment.

Then go through and redo the fuel system from start to finish.

80% of problems are solved by bad fuel and dirty tank etc.

 

 

[Stepney 2,314]

1 hour ago, TractorActor said:

I've learned the hard way...bypass the gunked up fuel system entirely by unhooking the fuel line from the carb and remove the carb bowl so no gunk gets pulled in the engine.

Shoot some starting fluid in the spark plug hole to see if it will pop.

Of course make sure the oil is full and not contaminated. Dirty oil is ok at first just as long as its just dirty oil and no foam or weird stuff.

If it starts you've solved the spark and compression part right off the bat for the moment.

Then go through and redo the fuel system from start to finish.

80% of problems are solved by bad fuel and dirty tank etc.

 

 

I avoid ether for various reasons. However should ether ever be used..get some oil in the plug hole too. Seen too many engines scuffed up by the occasional sniff of ether. 

[TractorActor 3]

22 hours ago, Stepney said:

I avoid ether for various reasons. However should ether ever be used..get some oil in the plug hole too. Seen too many engines scuffed up by the occasional sniff of ether. 

I never use starting fluid for more than an initial test to see what works and what doesn't.

 

If a quick squirt scratches cylinders then I have scratched at least 200 engines.....yikes sorry Kohler.

[Mudrig150 298]

Welp. I simplfied the tractor's harness and got no pop. Has good compression and should run but it has literally 0 spark even after cleaning the points. Upon further investigation I have no power to the coil. I know there is a connector in between the key switch and coil to quickly disconnect them, so I'm thinking with how much corrosion I found on the points and condensor its probably corroded the terminals in the connector.

[ebinmaine 63,071]

4 hours ago, Mudrig150 said:

Welp. I simplfied the tractor's harness and got no pop. Has good compression and should run but it has literally 0 spark even after cleaning the points. Upon further investigation I have no power to the coil. I know there is a connector in between the key switch and coil to quickly disconnect them, so I'm thinking with how much corrosion I found on the points and condensor its probably corroded the terminals in the connector.

Definitely some logic in that assumption.

 

One of the things that many of us have had to learn the hard way is that with these small machines being a DC electrical system, the ground connections are extremely important as well. I've been bitten by that one myself multiple times.

[The Tuul Crib 7,332]

All you have to do is paint it red and....

 

[richmondred01 2,205]

The 210 is an excellent machine. Never under estimate the quality of the older green and yellow. 

 

No spark then hot wire the engine and bypass the entire electrical system of the tractor.

If you have spark you know where to start looking. If not, your coil or condenser may be the culprit.

additionally, check the wires on the coil to assure they are on the correct poles.

All the best.

 

[Burnerman 758]

No spark could be a bad safety switch, ignition switch or wire. Find the switched 12v on the ignition switch and run that directly to the coil + like richmondred01 said.  I’m assuming it’s s 12v ignition system. If you still have no spark check for 12v at the points themselves when they’re open. 

It could be any wire. 

[Mudrig150 298]

21 hours ago, Burnerman said:

No spark could be a bad safety switch, ignition switch or wire. Find the switched 12v on the ignition switch and run that directly to the coil + like richmondred01 said.  I’m assuming it’s s 12v ignition system. If you still have no spark check for 12v at the points themselves when they’re open. 

It could be any wire. 

There's only 1 wire that could be the culprit. I eliminated all the safety switches, in fact there weren't even any on the tractor when I got it. I know the switch had spark when we had it in our JD 140, it got spark just fine. I'm thinking the issue is probably the wire on the coil is full of corrosion and not making contact.

[Mudrig150 298]

On 8/29/2019 at 9:58 AM, richmondred01 said:

The 210 is an excellent machine. Never under estimate the quality of the older green and yellow. 

 

No spark then hot wire the engine and bypass the entire electrical system of the tractor.

If you have spark you know where to start looking. If not, your coil or condenser may be the culprit.

additionally, check the wires on the coil to assure they are on the correct poles.

All the best.

 

I already did. The issue is with the new harness. Only remnant of the old harness is the one wire that goes from the connector to the coil post.

[Mudrig150 298]

Well the K241 is no longer in the 210, but it is in my 140. My no spark issue was definitely the connector, they were really stuck together and it was a shower of dust when I pulled them apart.

[Mudrig150 298]

So I'm hoping to get the K241 running once I get my hydraulics all hooked up, I just have to check the carb and swap coils.

One thing I did notice, is that plastic cover around 2 of the terminals for the AC voltage from the stator appears to be melted. Should I be concerned?

[ebinmaine 63,071]

You're really just going to have to get it running and test it.

It's possible that that plastic cover is melted because another component on a different tractor went bad.

Perhaps others could chime in with a way to bench test without the engine running but I don't know how to do it.

[Mudrig150 298]

Well It's only tighening lines, hydro fluid, coil swap, and oil to get it running, so it's not that much.

[Stepney 2,314]

I've seen rectifiers and switches fail sending power back through the stator when stationary, burning everything up.. funny enough both times were on old JD 100 series machines. There is an OHM test you can perform on the stator but with all the old wiring between it I wouldn't bother. Just get it fired up and see what sort of AC voltage you can read. 

[Mudrig150 298]

I looked at it, and I noticed that it is in fact not both AC wires, it's one AC wire and the DC wire from the VR. The plastic around the bottom AC wire and the DC wire is melted. That might be an issue, but only getting it running will reveal the truth... I only have to find my solenoid and get the wiring hooked up to run the tractor.

[Mudrig150 298]

Finally, I have spark.

I had spark across the points, albeit very sloppy and orange, turns out my points set themselves to .032. Adjusted them and now the spark is nice and strong, and jumps across the points and not away from them.

I put the coil wire to a separate switch and put direct power to the coil, and after realizing I forgot to put the points wire on the points, and after putting the wire on, so I have good spark now.

Put gas in the tractor and after turning the tractor over a bit I have a tiny line of fuel across the cylinder. Guessing carb issue, but it could also be something that has to do with it being a K321 carb, so I'll sort that out.

Gotta fix the axle seal and get fluid in the transmission before getting this tractor running.

 

Ironic, really. The 140 we got running with a motor, is now sitting without one, the 140 that had a motor and didn't run still doesn't run, and the 140 that had no motor when we got it is almost ready to run.

[Mudrig150 298]

So, I threw the head back on, and torqued the bolts to 25 ft/lbs in 10 ft/lb increments. New head gasket, and cleaned up the piston. I managed to find out that my new key switch is bad, I lose spark when turning the key from run to start. Hooked the coil back up to my light switch, and we're back in business. My carb is pushing some fuel out, but it's just laying in the bottom of the intake. Now to drain the old gas out and get new fuel in.