Replacing a HH120 with a K301

[ZXT 2,401]

Good evening! While it's pouring rain here for the next 9 days, I figured I'd start brainstorming what all I would need to swap from a Tecumseh to a Kohler. Not sure if this should go here or in the general discussion, but I'm sure it'll be moved if in the wrong place.

 

I have a K301 whose original application is unknown. The block is red, it also appears to have been Allis Chalmers orange at one time, and green at another. It has a decent amount of scoring in the cylinder. I might be able to hone it and make it run a while, but I might wind up having to have it bored - if I can find a machine shop that can do it for a reasonable price. 

 

I'll have to research the crank diameter between the Tecumseh and this Kohler to see if it's even possible with this engine. Same goes for the oil pan. I've been through the sticky post in this section and will look if it ever dries up. I guess what I'm really wondering is: Are there any mounting differences between the two engines? If the crank size is wrong for my PTO clutch, is there a source for an adapter? Is there anything else that I'm not considering? What is generally the going rate for boring a single cylinder?

 

Thanks guys!

[ebinmaine 72,719]

Well I can't answer everything but others will so I'll give what I know. 

You did put the question in the appropriate thread.

 

What little past experience I have with engines tells me that if you have a badly scored cylinder honing is probably not going to get all the way to a usable cylinder.

Machining will fix it. 

Cost varies A LOT by region so unless you have a local member with that information you'll have to make a few calls to machine shops.

 

Parts availability is not a concern.

Assuming you have a 70s C120...

Most of the horsies then we're Kohler so there are plenty of good usable parts to help with the change over.

 

[953 nut 60,072]

The oil sump on a Wheel Horse Kohler has two bolts that come up from under the frame into threaded holes (near the top in this picture).

Most K-301 crank shafts are 1 1/8" at the PTO end. 

[ZXT 2,401]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Eric, that's kind of what I was thinking on the cylinder.. I'll have to check around with some machine shops. A friend of mine has a C160 and I figured I'd use it for reference if I got confused anywhere. 

 

Richard, thanks for the picture. I'll run and see what the oil pan looks like. 

[pfrederi 18,689]

K301s had 3 different ignition systems the magneto points and breakerless will use the same ignition switch as your Techy with solid state ignition.    If the K301 has battery points a new switch and a bit of rewiring are in order.

You techy sits on an engine mounting plate you will not use that for the K301.

You can make either 1' or 1-1/8" cranks work with the WH PTO.  Big issue is the length you need one about the same length as the one on the Techyther users of K301s may have specified shorter crank shafts as they didn't use the same style PTO.

[ebinmaine 72,719]

9 minutes ago, ZXT said:

friend of mine has a C160 and I figured I'd use it for reference

I have a restored C160 that doesn't have the PTO installed yet.

I have a non restored C100 that is mostly complete.

 

If you need pics or help lemme know.

 

[oliver2-44 10,734]

What WH tractor is this going in?

The oil pan picture Richard posted is for a pan that mounts directly to the angle iron frame.  If it has the shaker plate mount it uses a different oil pan. Besided the pan and crank diameter you also need to compare crank shaft height so the same belt and belt guard will work with minimal changes.

 

I've had a hard time finding an engine machine shop that would touch a small engine anymore, in my area of  central Texas.   There's one in Temple (2 hrs away) that says they will bore one $75, and possible grind the crank $100 if it will fit there machine, but haven't done one in a long time.  I've also found a motorcycle shop that said they have bored several K-series Kohlers. they charge $50-$75, but can't do the crankshaft.  Find a shop that does racing car/motorcycle engines and find out who does their machine work.  I've also heard of one in San Antonio, (2 hours away) but haven't tracked them down yet.  Austin is closer to me, but I've called every shop there and they won't do them. 

[Pullstart 66,826]

In my area, a few NAPA stores have machine shop ability.  I’ve had good success on Kohlers and Chevys alike.

[ZXT 2,401]

I apologize! I forgot to specify this is for my C120. 

 

The oil pan does not have the extra two holes like the one pictured, and it has a 1" crank. I'll have to compare the length to the Tecky later. 

 

The Kohler doesn't have anything for points at the moment, but it'll have regular points and a 12v coil when I get to that point. Wiring it doesn't scare me too much, but I'm sure ill have questions when it comes to rewiring the switch. 

 

Jim, that's along the lines of what I've heard from people locally who have tried to have one bored. I know a guy that does machine work and also rebuilds gasoline welders, so I figure I'd give him a shout and see if he'll do it. The bottom end on this engine is tight. If I don't need to have the crank turned, I probably wont.

 

Pullstart, I'm going to a friend's house here in a bit and he works at the local Napa. I'll ask and see if they have that capability.

 

Eric, if I need any pictures I'll let you know.

 

Thanks!

Edited May 2, 2019 by ZXT

[953 nut 60,072]

3 hours ago, ZXT said:

oil pan does not have the extra two holes like the one pictured

You can always use a couple of 3/8"   "J" bolts to secure it to the frame.

3 hours ago, ZXT said:

sure ill have questions when it comes to rewiring the switch.

Save this drawing to your files for future reference. 103 990 is the switch number for battery ignition systems.

[ZXT 2,401]

If that'll hold it in place good enough I might just do that. 

 

Image is saved to my computer. Thanks for the part number, my dads C141 needs an ignition switch so I'll go ahead and order a couple. 

[ZXT 2,401]

Measured the crank on the Tecumseh, and it's approx. 1" longer than the crank on the Kohler I was thinking of using. The crank length and diameter on the K301 appear to be the same as a K321 I have that I know came off of a JD. 

 

The K321 i have broke a rod and scored up the crank but didn't damage the cylinder. The cylinder on it is in good shape and would easily re-ring. I'm tempted to see if I can source a good K321 crank for a WH spec Kohler, buy a new rod and piston (i dont have either), and slap that engine in it. It also has the short pan with the protrusion for the long dipper, so I assume I'd need to swap pans.  

Edited May 3, 2019 by ZXT

[953 nut 60,072]

11 hours ago, ZXT said:

It also has the short pan with the protrusion for the long dipper, so I assume I'd need to swap pans.

That is a shaker plate engine, do you have all the mounts and the plate to mount it with?

[ZXT 2,401]

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

That is a shaker plate engine, do you have all the mounts and the plate to mount it with?

 

I do not, and I'm not a huge fan of shaker plate engines. Is there any reason why I can't swap pans?

[pfrederi 18,689]

25 minutes ago, ZXT said:

 

I do not, and I'm not a huge fan of shaker plate engines. Is there any reason why I can't swap pans?

You need to read the pinned posting about Kohler block base sizes. top of this forum

[ZXT 2,401]

13 hours ago, pfrederi said:

You need to read the pinned posting about Kohler block base sizes. top of this forum

I have already and don't recall anything saying that you can't swap pans. I'll look through it again.

[ZXT 2,401]

Yanked the K321 apart today. Crank is toast as I expected, but the bore is tight and the cam lobes don't appear to have a ton of wear on them. Doesn't seem like it was a high-hour engine. 

 

I looked through the pinned post again and didn't see anything stating that shaker plate engines couldn't have pans swapped. Regardless, it is a dual pattern block, so I can technically run any pan. Haven't had any luck finding anyone with a crank for sale as of yet, but hopefully I will soon. Also will need a head and an oil pan. If I am unable to come up with a WH spec crank, where can I find the adapter to make a 1" crank work with a 1.125" PTO? I recall reading somewhere that an earlier model with a Clinton (could be wrong on this part) used a sleeve to accomplish the same thing, but I haven't run across that information again.

 

I cleaned the block and sprayed it with some Duplicolor Chrysler Red engine paint, which will have to be close enough. I'm a Chrysler guy anyways so I'll put up with it if it isn't very close. I've never seen a WH with good correct color paint, so I don't have much to base it off of.

 

Hopefully I can have this thing together and running within a week or two! We've received around 7 inches of rain in the last 2 weeks and the grass is growing fast.

[pfrederi 18,689]

Search Ebay for crankshaft adapter

Edited May 6, 2019 by pfrederi

[953 nut 60,072]

Here is a post from a few years back that should help out.

Kohler Big Block Engines.pdf

[ZXT 2,401]

Thanks for the replies. I had gone through the oil pan thread a few times before I made this post - I know it well. Thanks for the numerous suggestions to go through it. 

 

I bought a K321 crank out of a C141 and hopefully when it arrives it will prove to be in spec. If it is, I'll be good to go putting it back together. Got my rebuild kit in today, and I can rob the oil pan and head from the K301 to put on the K321.